EP 41 v2.txt
English (US)
00:02.720 — 00:13.440 · Speaker 1
Welcome to the podcast cave. I’m here with Brendan Gabriel. The next big thing in content the next. But you’ve been the big thing in content for 20 years, Brendan.
00:13.480 — 00:16.440 · Speaker 2
It’s not about the size of the thing, you know.
00:18.320 — 00:20.280 · Speaker 2
It’s what you bring to the party, right?
00:20.320 — 00:20.800 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:20.800 — 00:21.480 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Great.
00:21.520 — 00:24.960 · Speaker 1
So I’m Brendan, we met at Endemol many, many, many years ago.
00:25.000 — 00:25.440 · Speaker 3
Yes.
00:25.480 — 00:38.120 · Speaker 1
And that’s where I think most of our journeys start in this industry. Everybody does it. Stint at Endemol. Yeah. And then you went off to Africa Channel. You’ve been at Amazon Prime. You’ve now a consultant for everybody.
00:38.160 — 00:45.920 · Speaker 2
The Africa Channel and Prime Media and conflicts in LA that I’m doing some stuff for. So yeah.
00:45.960 — 00:51.600 · Speaker 1
Yeah. You were a busy, busy man. You’ve done everything from MasterChef, Big Brother, deal or no Deal.
00:52.640 — 00:54.560 · Speaker 2
Uh, survivor.
00:54.600 — 00:55.560 · Speaker 1
Survivor.
:00:55.880 — 00:57.360 · Speaker 2
Did we say Izzy? Dingo?
00:57.400 — 00:58.160 · Speaker 1
Izzy. Dingo?
00:58.320 — 01:05.230 · Speaker 2
Izzy. Dingo. Tempe pushes. Oh, but the first thing that ever
01:06.390 — 01:16.910 · Speaker 2
sort of made me kind of relevant in the industry would have to be step up or step out. Oh, yeah. How could we forget that?
01:17.070 — 01:17.630 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:18.270 — 01:19.030 · Speaker 2
Um,
01:20.110 — 01:21.030 · Speaker 2
should we talk about that?
01:21.070 — 01:24.390 · Speaker 1
Yeah, let’s talk about that. How did that come about, and why do you think.
01:24.390 — 01:27.710 · Speaker 2
It’s first start with how I got into TV?
01:28.830 — 01:01:31.070 · Speaker 2
Because that wasn’t part of the plan.
01:01:31.110 — 01:01:32.270 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Hold on to your chairs.
01:01:32.510 — 01:01:32.750 · Speaker 3
Oh.
01:01:33.830 — 01:02:20.020 · Speaker 2
No, really, it wasn’t part of the plan. So it was 2009, and I was working for a company who did a lot of above the line TV commercials. Really great award winning commercials. I was the creative director for that company, and you might know some of them. Um, blue 52 snail gel. First of all, that’s my claim to fame, guys.
So, um. And what happens to 2009, 2010? Huge economic meltdown and things were looking really die on the advertising space. Uh, very much like the state of the world in the industry right now, actually. Wow.
01:02:21.060 — 01:03:15.180 · Speaker 2
The cycle continues. And, um, and the producer that I worked very closely with in-house at, um, uh, at the agency, um, had jumped ship and she called me and she was like, there’s this company that I’m at and they’re looking for. It’s like a creative director, but it’s for TV content. Are you interested? And things are so kind of dire at the time that I was open to have a conversation about that, like TV shows.
TV content. Okay, let’s have a conversation. But I didn’t do like, my preparation for this session. I didn’t do any research. Right. And I rocked up to this company. What at the time sounded like a pharmaceutical company.
01:03:15.220 — 01:03:17.780 · Speaker 1
Yes. And had a really pharmaceutical logo too.
01:03:17.820 — 01:03:51.460 · Speaker 2
Yeah. And more like for, like, suppositories. Right. Uh, and that company was Endemol. But when I sat in the foyer and I saw all of these posters, of all of these shows that I knew and would watch, I was like, oh, I should maybe I should have read something before this. And then, um, and then the then head of creative comes running downstairs and he’s like, Brendan, this is just a formality.
Like, you know, you’re in. And I’m like, great.
01:03:51.740 — 01:03:53.140 · Speaker 4
I’m in for what?
01:03:54.100 — 01:04:17.049 · Speaker 2
And what was meant to be an interim thing before I landed the next creative director gig, because my parents are ex ad agencies. Ex Hunter Scaurus. Ex. Um, uh, what’s the, uh, red and yellow? What’s there? What are they associated with? Um.
01:04:17.970 — 01:04:19.410 · Speaker 1
It’s not the olives in there.
01:04:19.450 — 01:05:33.520 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Ogilvy. That’s it. And so my thing was to be this cans winning creative director of campaigns and commercials and whatever. This was not part of the plan. And what ended up being, uh, let’s see how this works out. Ended up being almost seven years at at Endemol starting. Uh, my focus was principally creating TV content, which was the good old fashioned way of getting a brief from the channel and answering the brief and the broadcasters commissioning and paying for it and your shows on TV and.
And principally, I was building up all the original inventory. And what am I saying is when you get to be part of something like Endemol, which is now Benny J. You learn the machine because you’re working with the best. You know this, you’re working with the best of the best. You see how it’s put together and how strategic and intentional everything is, but not just strategic and intentional of like.
01:05:33.840 — 01:05:36.320 · Speaker 5
I’m feeling this logo.
01:05:36.320 — 01:05:39.680 · Speaker 2
Behind me, but it’s like the business behind it.
01:05:39.720 — 01:05:44.880 · Speaker 1
And the research. Yeah, we never did any brainstorm without massive amounts of data.
01:05:44.920 — 01:06:09.510 · Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely. We were. And and I think that’s where a lot of young people entering the industry don’t understand that there’s a commercial element to everything that you’re selling, and you need to understand your buyer, and you learn all of those kinds of things and and what works and what doesn’t work, and most terrifyingly, how quick everything shifts and changes.
And
01:06:10.590 — 01:06:24.710 · Speaker 2
so little whippersnapper in the advertising in the in the content game. And I did like, you know, the cabal is very there were all of these very experienced producers who would be like, huh,
01:06:25.790 — 01:07:20.100 · Speaker 2
who are you? This show? Why this show? And you had to have the answers for all of these things, and then you were in front of the broadcasters. But I must say, I was very fortunate to have mentors who saw something in myself that I didn’t see. And, um, and they, um, and they gave me the opportunity and they allowed me to have typos in my PowerPoint presentations and say the wrong thing and do, but learn from it.
And I had mentors who called me out also on things that I weren’t wasn’t aware of, of myself, whether it was in the creative space or learning how to take it on the chin. When someone comes in with a critique and that there’s a method to the madness sometimes, sometimes not all the time.
01:07:20.140 — 01:07:21.380 · Speaker 1
Does it still happen?
01:07:21.620 — 01:07:22.980 · Speaker 4
Oh, all the time.
01:07:23.660 — 01:07:25.460 · Speaker 2
All the time.
01:07:25.660 — 01:07:26.940 · Speaker 4
If you.
01:07:27.260 — 01:07:56.980 · Speaker 2
Don’t think. If you feel that you know it all and there’s nothing for you to learn, then you wouldn’t be working for the industry. You’d be the industry. And I don’t think that exists. And so. And then we got this brief from Monday. Twala, who was head of ETV. Winton pitched this paper format, which was being pitched as a prime time.
01:07:57.180 — 01:07:57.860 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:07:58.700 — 01:08:12.300 · Speaker 2
Reality dance competition show, competing with idols and all the other big shows that are on Sunday prime time. Me in my 20s,
01:08:13.860 — 01:09:13.730 · Speaker 2
very confidently and ballsy going, can I say bold? Yeah. Okay, great. And very ballsy pitching this thing. And the next thing you know, we get a commission. And that was my, um, the break of the cycle of pitching paper formats. Okay. And now starting to see traction and stuff with stuff. And, um, and I think that Endemol logo behind me played a significant role in the implicit a trust that that, uh, the broadcaster had, uh, even though I had really no credentials from an originals perspective.
Um, but once again, it was people who believed in you and who believed the thing around you that I think was the real start of my career in TV. And that’s when I also believed my own bullshit that I’m like.
01:09:13.770 — 01:09:14.210 · Speaker 4
Hey.
01:09:14.370 — 01:09:15.490 · Speaker 1
You can do this.
01:09:15.610 — 01:09:18.890 · Speaker 4
This is a thing. I can do this.
01:09:20.690 — 01:09:38.250 · Speaker 1
Yeah, good. So just also sum it up. It’s taking the chance and something new. Yeah. And the right chance with the right company. Yeah. Taking the advice, taking the mentorship, taking everything culminates into the first step of success, right?
01:09:38.290 — 01:09:42.369 · Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely. Uh, and I mean, there’s so many
01:09:43.450 — 01:10:18.720 · Speaker 2
things that are in play When that’s happening, it’s also weirdly as. As much as we can try and make things very scientific and mathematical, it’s also very right place, right time, right people. It all just like like a great concept or a TV show. Yeah. I mean, having worked in the the streaming place for space for a big American streaming platform, um, um,
01:10:19.920 — 01:10:58.710 · Speaker 2
as with all the data and research you could possibly ever want to wish for or the testing on your formats, the people would always the the, the, the, the research teams would always tell you like it’s just data at the end of the day. I mean, you can use it to guide your creative, but it’s not going to give you the answer.
And just like in those moments in life. You can try and take these very strategic moves, but it’s it is almost a play. A situation of right place, right time for that economic meltdown in 2009, 2010,
01:10:59.950 — 01:11:05.510 · Speaker 2
coupled with that person that I worked for who just happened to be at this thing,
01:11:06.830 — 01:11:15.190 · Speaker 2
and the right people at the place who were able to see something in me, all of that allowed it to happen.
01:11:15.230 — 01:11:19.870 · Speaker 1
Yeah, but then it’s in your hands to do something with it.
01:11:19.870 — 01:11:20.830 · Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:20.950 — 01:11:27.990 · Speaker 2
I’m upset that the Catholic Church never saw that in you, but, you know, Endemol is a close second.
01:11:28.790 — 01:11:36.310 · Speaker 1
Okay, great. So how has the industry changed specifically for formats since Step Up.
01:11:36.510 — 01:11:37.670 · Speaker 4
Oh my god.
01:11:39.710 — 01:11:53.979 · Speaker 2
I think the change obviously started with streaming and then and then a very quick follow through into digital, which is, you know, with step up linear
01:11:55.060 — 01:12:01.900 · Speaker 2
number of episodes. It’s crazy how people don’t get number of episodes for streaming. I still get pitched 13 episodes.
01:12:01.900 — 01:12:02.140 · Speaker 4
For it.
01:12:02.180 — 01:12:03.660 · Speaker 1
Because of the broadcast times.
01:12:04.620 — 01:12:21.540 · Speaker 2
Um, you know, so 13, 13 episodes, 26 for two seasons, you know, that’s how it would be for, for, uh, linear with so many ad breaks. Uh, you also thumb sucking for content at some points because your budgets are limited.
01:12:21.660 — 01:12:23.100 · Speaker 4
Yeah. Africa.
01:12:23.140 — 01:13:11.500 · Speaker 2
And then, uh, um, yet with digital and streaming today has completely shifted that. And it’s also kind of woken linear channels up to that. I’ve had conversations with broadcasters where they’re like, no, not doesn’t necessarily have to be 13 episodes. It could be ten. Tell us the best story in the best amount of time needed to tell the story.
And I’m like, wow, that’s great. Clearly there’s competition. There’s no longer the monopoly of pay TV anymore in South Africa, and now there’s TikTok and Instagram and eventually a microchip that will go into your brain and you just, like, blink through whatever content I’m waiting for that day.
01:13:11.700 — 01:13:12.820 · Speaker 1
You like that idea?
01:13:13.220 — 01:13:19.260 · Speaker 2
It’s going to happen. It’s going to happen. The matrix is the future.
01:13:19.420 — 01:13:23.580 · Speaker 1
And when did brands start getting into content? Because there was a shift.
01:13:23.860 — 01:13:31.420 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, there was very much a, um, this weird codependence. But,
01:13:32.540 — 01:13:55.890 · Speaker 2
um, this fight, I mean, it still happens. It’s still the same today, right? Uh, we all know the advertisers pay for the content that back in the day would be on linear TV. And now with streaming, obviously it’s it’s a lot more. It’s the same kind of, um, but I find that,
01:13:56.930 — 01:14:18.130 · Speaker 2
um, the shift has been from very sort of on the nose integration into much smarter ways of integrating the brands, even on the digital stuff that you see today. It’s very incidental, mainly because, um, millennials and Gen Zs tend to turn off if it’s like.
01:14:18.570 — 01:14:19.570 · Speaker 1
On the nose. Yeah.
01:14:19.610 — 01:14:22.729 · Speaker 2
And I wish brands would understand that
01:14:24.090 — 01:15:24.280 · Speaker 2
a little better. You know, I still find here in South or Africa, um, that brand managers and strategists can be a little too in-your-face with the brand and that and that if something is on linear, maybe there’s an opportunity to do the other stuff that’s a little more on the nose on the digital end, to compliment and breathe into each other.
Yeah. You know, um. Um, but I feel today it’s a lot more that there’s a, there’s a movement in Africa. I’m speaking specifically about Africa because I feel that things are always slightly ahead in, um, in more developed markets. Mhm. Um, uh, you know, um, my former boss at Amazon Prime is now heading up, um, the move to integrate brands into content on Amazon, Amazon Prime.
01:15:24.320 — 01:15:24.840 · Speaker 1
Yeah. It’s going to.
01:15:24.880 — 01:15:30.320 · Speaker 2
Originals. Uh, I believe there was something that happened in, um,
01:15:31.880 — 01:15:44.310 · Speaker 2
uh, in Mexico with L’Oreal for a scripted show. And, and so it’s it’s happening. Right? We I mean, we all we see it in movies in the US all the time.
01:15:44.470 — 01:15:56.150 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Really good integration. Yeah. Doesn’t mess up the story. Yeah. You get the brand affinity. Yeah. I mean, James Bond is the always the famous example of that with the cars and everything. Yeah.
01:15:56.190 — 01:16:01.590 · Speaker 2
And, uh, what was it? Uh, what woman want? What women want?
01:16:01.630 — 01:16:01.870 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:16:02.830 — 01:16:04.790 · Speaker 2
Fiji water.
01:16:06.310 — 01:16:10.030 · Speaker 5
Yeah. Was in every single border and like.
01:16:10.070 — 01:16:10.790 · Speaker 2
Okay,
01:16:12.030 — 01:16:12.830 · Speaker 2
okay.
01:16:12.950 — 01:16:14.870 · Speaker 1
But yeah. Super effective.
01:16:15.190 — 01:16:34.190 · Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely. And also if the and here’s the delicate part of brands and content, if the content is really great the brand doesn’t become that on the nose integration.
01:16:35.710 — 01:16:36.150 · Speaker 2
Uh,
01:16:37.380 — 01:17:00.980 · Speaker 2
But if it’s not, and if it doesn’t have the work that goes into the Hollywood writing and that that kind of dust would distract you, you’re invested in the story. But subliminally you’re taking all of these brands being living in these environments. Um, then, yeah, you have issues.
01:17:01.020 — 01:17:09.980 · Speaker 1
Yeah. So so what do you think of brands now employing chief entertainment officers? You know, the the idea of them becoming content studios.
01:17:10.220 — 01:17:45.500 · Speaker 2
I it’s about time. It’s about time here. You know, uh, speaking of, like, more developed markets in the US, there is a company that I’m aware of where once the movie script is done by the big studios, it gets sent to them. They look at where brands can be seamlessly and naturally integrated. And they plug it in.
And then they bring in the brands, they sell it and then it offsets on the budgets. And then uh, I think, um,
01:17:46.820 — 01:17:51.460 · Speaker 2
- That’s brilliant. It’s already happening. It’s been happening.
01:17:51.500 — 01:17:51.660 · Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:17:51.900 — 01:18:45.050 · Speaker 2
For Youngs. Right. And I think that for brands to understand that they’re no longer just a bull board, that they’re no longer just a street pole ad and a radio ad and that it’s so it’s, you know, conceptually, they always knew they were three dimensional brands. Uh, you know, the identity and the values of the brand.
And you got to feel it a little bit and experiential and whatever. But the fact that they’re now bringing in people into the space, uh, and hopefully to learn and to move with things and to be pioneers in that space is great because you kind of need those advocates inside, or else it becomes a. Hmm. This is a great show.
I’m going to cool myself off with Coca Cola.
01:18:45.090 — 01:19:10.730 · Speaker 1
Yeah. So it’s amazing. I mean, brands are now, instead of pushing to audiences, they’ve realized we have to pull the audiences. Yeah. And what pulls audiences entertainment? Yeah. And we can’t just bash them with our message. Yeah, we’ve got to make them part of our vibe. Yeah. You know, so it’s it’s it’s really good to see.
I’m hoping more brands in South Africa and Africa take the risk into it.
01:19:10.770 — 01:19:11.250 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:19:11.290 — 01:19:14.170 · Speaker 1
Because the the early adopters are going to benefit the most.
01:19:14.210 — 01:19:18.290 · Speaker 2
Yeah. I am seeing that more. Okay. I mean, if you’re,
01:19:19.330 — 01:19:20.090 · Speaker 2
um,
01:19:21.730 — 01:20:03.760 · Speaker 2
aware of what’s happening on linear TV, free to air with Primedia content, I’m not plugging in Primedia, but they’re doing it and they’re doing it on a very big scale, which feels like Deal or no deal. MasterChef. Um. Wheel of fortune. Uh, those are all ad funded shows. Yeah, right. So, uh, and and I must say, it is still a hand-holding process.
It is because brands also need to trust. And once they they let go and they know you’ve got it, you have their best intentions, and they and they start to see the results. It’s phenomenal.
01:20:03.800 — 01:20:13.520 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, we were just talking. We just finished a small thing in Botswana together and you just got the results. Yeah. And it’s worth looking good. Looking good. Yeah.
01:20:13.560 — 01:20:14.200 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:20:14.440 — 01:20:27.360 · Speaker 1
So let’s let’s change tack a little bit with the current. What’s happening in Africa? What do you think about MultiChoice and Canal+ and the I think bright future but the chaos.
01:20:27.480 — 01:20:28.880 · Speaker 5
Currently I’m.
01:20:28.880 — 01:20:33.350 · Speaker 2
Going to answer it like Mariah Carey and say I don’t think about.
01:20:33.350 — 01:20:33.990 · Speaker 5
It.
01:20:35.230 — 01:20:35.990 · Speaker 1
Okay.
01:20:36.470 — 01:20:39.230 · Speaker 2
No. Okay. So, on a serious note,
01:20:40.510 — 01:20:40.910 · Speaker 2
uh,
01:20:42.110 — 01:20:47.430 · Speaker 2
Carl. Yes? You and I have been part of a merger and acquisition.
01:20:47.470 — 01:20:48.110 · Speaker 1
Yes. That was.
01:20:48.150 — 01:20:48.750 · Speaker 2
When Fox.
01:20:48.750 — 01:20:49.430 · Speaker 5
Bought.
01:20:49.630 — 01:20:50.990 · Speaker 2
Shine and Endemol.
01:20:51.070 — 01:20:51.990 · Speaker 1
That’s right.
01:20:52.750 — 01:21:02.870 · Speaker 2
We saw things shift and change. Did it kill the formats and the shows and the brands? No, it naturally evolved. Right.
01:21:02.910 — 01:21:04.230 · Speaker 1
And for the better.
01:21:04.430 — 01:21:05.070 · Speaker 2
Absolutely.
01:21:05.110 — 01:21:10.710 · Speaker 1
Does it set them up for the next step, which is now bandage, which has just bought all three media?
01:21:10.750 — 01:21:11.670 · Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.
01:21:11.710 — 01:21:13.150 · Speaker 1
Which is now the powerhouse.
01:21:13.270 — 01:21:14.950 · Speaker 2
Now they have traitors in the fold.
01:21:14.990 — 01:21:15.870 · Speaker 1
No, they have traitors.
01:21:15.910 — 01:21:16.630 · Speaker 5
I think they have, like.
01:21:16.670 — 01:21:18.910 · Speaker 2
Every single massive format.
01:21:18.950 — 01:21:20.270 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I cannot think of one.
01:21:20.310 — 01:21:23.750 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Other than maybe lighter than The Voice and.
01:21:24.230 — 01:21:27.830 · Speaker 1
It’s Love Island. It’s ITV. I don’t know. Yeah. Don’t quote me on that.
01:21:27.870 — 01:21:41.030 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know Formats. I don’t pay attention to other people’s formats anymore, but sorry USA. Oh, why do I think about that? Yeah. So as I was saying, merge,
01:21:42.190 — 01:21:59.390 · Speaker 2
uh, we we were sitting safely in the bubble of South Africa where they weren’t shiny ones. We were just getting a an in incorporated catalog that we could and we could do clash of the choirs and all of these other shows that we benefited.
01:21:59.390 — 01:22:01.270 · Speaker 1
We got MasterChef at that point.
01:22:01.310 — 01:22:21.030 · Speaker 2
Exactly. So in that vein, there will be I’m sure there will be benefits and values that will be brought into the space. But, um, uh, you know, at the end of the day, it it’s the the acquisition was inevitable.
01:22:21.150 — 01:22:21.750 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:22:22.550 — 01:22:23.390 · Speaker 2
Uh, I.
01:22:26.630 — 01:22:34.580 · Speaker 2
Uh, and this is not a canal plus thing. But what I notice a lot of the time.
01:22:35.780 — 01:23:13.260 · Speaker 2
Being given the opportunity to sit at the boardroom is to see the same kind of errors made over and over again, and I’m not saying that that is going to be the situation with Canal Plus. I mean, they they are very active in other parts of Africa and, and I’m sure they will bring significant learnings there to help flip and turn things around.
But, uh, I hope that they will pay attention to local nuance of how things are done and how things roll out. And and if it ain’t broke, um,
01:23:14.340 — 01:24:04.970 · Speaker 2
because I’ve seen so many internationals come in and buy local brands here and decimate them, we’ve seen it over and like, I’m, I’m Living with it in my home, where my husband’s going through a similar situation and, and it’s like, um, and we’ve seen it also with, with big streaming companies that come here and implement very clunky things that when I would look at the budgets of these things going like, how are we going to get the ROI on this?
I get that there’s the Hollywood way of doing things, but I think there are things, a lot of things, actually, that Hollywood could learn from Africa in terms of efficiencies. You know, the content that we produce,
01:24:06.330 — 01:24:06.770 · Speaker 2
uh.
01:24:08.930 — 01:24:19.690 · Speaker 2
You know, is often international standard. I think there are things that we can apply to. Oh, I’m, I’m talking about purely production value on screen, the.
01:24:19.970 — 01:24:20.450 · Speaker 1
Screen value.
01:24:20.650 — 01:24:23.730 · Speaker 2
Technical and the cameras, and especially in South Africa.
01:24:23.770 — 01:24:24.250 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:24:24.290 — 01:25:28.750 · Speaker 2
I mean, world class. You just said Fury Road was shut in our backyard. Uh, um, raised by wolves, Ridley Scott, Cape Town. Yeah, I mean, we’re doing it right. Um, but we do it really efficiently. And and in a time where things where we can’t even Hollywood can’t afford to be bulky and clunky anymore, I think there are things that we could learn here also from, uh, specifically South Africa and how we how we do things.
Um, and I and I hope that when there and this is like MBA 101, and a lot of the times when you do the, the, the course about how why internationals fail when they go into other territories is they bring in the DNA of a thing and plunk it in without understanding culture. Culture is so important and nuance is so important.
01:25:28.750 — 01:25:32.910 · Speaker 1
And when we say culture, it’s not necessarily language. It’s culture.
01:25:32.950 — 01:25:36.830 · Speaker 2
It’s how things are done, even which is which is culture.
01:25:36.830 — 01:25:53.390 · Speaker 1
And simple things like, I’ve spoken to a lot of internationals about the micro dramas which we talk about, and what they don’t understand is bank accounts in Africa are a very different situation. Payment channels are very different.
01:25:53.430 — 01:25:54.030 · Speaker 2
I mean.
01:25:54.310 — 01:25:55.750 · Speaker 1
We do many different.
01:25:55.830 — 01:25:59.510 · Speaker 2
When I lived and worked in the US, I used to get cut a check.
01:26:01.510 — 01:26:01.910 · Speaker 1
And that’s.
01:26:01.910 — 01:26:02.710 · Speaker 6
So weird for the.
01:26:02.710 — 01:26:10.110 · Speaker 2
Time. Like a like a paper. Like, you know, your grandma used to sign you a check for your birthday.
01:26:10.110 — 01:26:11.870 · Speaker 1
Well, if you got lucky. Yeah.
01:26:13.830 — 01:26:53.190 · Speaker 2
If you’re an Oppenheimer. She was deciding, but, uh, that, I mean. Yeah, just the and and and because of that, it would be so bizarre to not have the efficiencies that we have here digitally with like, banking and whatever when I lived there. And the same applies here. There are things that we do here that are tremendously clunky, but that comes with fraud and everything else that determines bureaucracy and process.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Um, and I hope the French don’t bring in their bureaucracy because. Good grief.
01:26:53.230 — 01:26:54.670 · Speaker 1
Yeah, I think another level.
01:26:54.790 — 01:27:04.190 · Speaker 2
You know, we don’t we don’t have time, especially in pace and the way things are moving for that, that crankiness.
01:27:05.310 — 01:27:16.630 · Speaker 2
Um, so, so I think there are going to be pros and cons to it. I’m sitting back and waiting to see how this all plays out. I’m hoping
01:27:17.710 — 01:27:58.540 · Speaker 2
for the best. Uh, I’m hoping for the best for for Canal Plus, because it would be a travesty for them to be this hated entity in in industry that killed industry. That and I’m 100% sure that that is absolutely not part of their intention. No business wants that. Yeah. Um, and that it just, um, naturally evolved into something that still maintains what MultiChoice stood for, which were the purveyors of, of trying to create this international content.
I mean, they were doing it with their international GoPros.
01:27:58.580 — 01:27:58.980 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:27:59.660 — 01:28:36.850 · Speaker 2
Uh, and, and and even the local stuff that we were producing was, you know, on par with the international stuff. We were always in the Endemol. Back in the day, the Endemol Reels of what South Africa did or what Nigeria did for their versions of the big international formats and and MultiChoice made that happen, you know?
Uh, we can’t afford to lose that. Industry can’t afford to lose, uh, MultiChoice. Nor can we afford to lose the SABC or ETV. The thing is, everything is evolving in such a tremendously rapid pace.
01:28:36.970 — 01:28:37.810 · Speaker 1
So fast.
01:28:37.810 — 01:28:40.570 · Speaker 2
So I’ve never seen it. Yeah.
01:28:40.610 — 01:29:00.970 · Speaker 1
This, uh, it almost feels like this year it kind of came all together somehow. Mhm. Like all our if’s and what’s and what’s happening. Yeah. It just feels like it’s accelerated and for the better. I feel that at the end of the uncertainty I don’t see how it could be worse.
01:29:01.010 — 01:29:01.610 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:29:01.930 — 01:29:03.010 · Speaker 1
It’s really that way.
01:29:04.810 — 01:29:05.650 · Speaker 1
I mean it’s got.
01:29:05.650 — 01:29:07.530 · Speaker 2
People who said World War three in here.
01:29:08.970 — 01:29:09.890 · Speaker 2
Stop it.
01:29:10.690 — 01:29:11.650 · Speaker 1
Okay, Brandon,
01:29:13.210 — 01:29:17.330 · Speaker 1
there’s a whole bunch of boxing directors watching this. What would you tell them?
01:29:18.640 — 01:29:26.800 · Speaker 1
What? What do they need to do? Do they need to start running out and employing people like us to create content?
01:29:28.240 — 01:29:40.040 · Speaker 1
Should they drop their spend media spend on MultiChoice? What do you think the future of the media mix and content and what does that look like?
01:29:40.360 — 01:31:04.750 · Speaker 2
Oh, I think so. When you asked like what was different about step up or step out versus today? Right. And and that’s kind of connected to this question because whereas back in the day, uh, there was the linear broadcast of the show and whatever existed digitally was a nice to have because you never really factored that into your edit and your post process.
Yeah. Right. And, and then the brands would almost independently do their the street pole ads, these billboards. And it was very like, here’s a grid. And you. You color in the blocks, right? But because audiences thanks to digital. Also sophisticated in the way that they interact with things that. Yes, you’re especially in Africa where, you know, digital still holds sorry, linear still holds a space for content and there are still audiences there.
Brands also need to consider the extension of that on this, this side, which is slowly becoming part and parcel of the linear and the and the digital content so that it lives in a whole ecosystem.
01:31:04.990 — 01:31:05.390 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:31:05.430 — 01:31:06.990 · Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. So,
01:31:08.270 — 01:31:17.990 · Speaker 2
uh, so could it be as simple as the podcast that’s linked to the show and traitors is doing it.
01:31:18.150 — 01:31:18.550 · Speaker 1
Traders has.
01:31:18.550 — 01:31:18.790 · Speaker 6
Done it.
01:31:18.950 — 01:31:28.350 · Speaker 2
Right. So there’s a good example of how you, you know, um, yes, you do employ people like us because.
01:31:28.470 — 01:31:29.550 · Speaker 1
Because we can help you.
01:31:29.590 — 01:31:31.230 · Speaker 6
Because we can help you.
01:31:31.710 — 01:31:44.790 · Speaker 1
And the traitor’s examples are really good because traitors of those you don’t know. Massive, massive linear show actually the saving grace for linear in the UK, right. Actually brought audiences back to TV.
01:31:44.830 — 01:31:45.430 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:31:45.630 — 01:31:46.110 · Speaker 1
Then they.
01:31:46.110 — 01:31:47.430 · Speaker 2
Lost young audiences.
01:31:47.470 — 01:31:47.670 · Speaker 1
Young.
01:31:47.670 — 01:31:48.030 · Speaker 6
Audience.
01:31:48.070 — 01:31:53.630 · Speaker 2
The Gen Z that we are so tremendously terrified of how to tap into that space.
01:31:53.670 — 01:31:54.270 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:31:54.430 — 01:32:15.140 · Speaker 1
And then they launch a podcast does incredibly well the talent from the show launch podcasts and spin offs and become huge. And the digital content is as big as the show. Yeah, and the companion stuff and the brand stuff around that. Yeah. They now got titles in theater.
01:32:15.180 — 01:32:15.580 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:32:15.620 — 01:32:24.820 · Speaker 1
Broadway show. Uh, well, West end show. Yeah. They’ve got traitors. The board game. Which I’ve still got a sealed Big Brother board game, actually, on my shelf somewhere nice.
01:32:25.100 — 01:32:26.420 · Speaker 2
Stolen from our.
01:32:26.460 — 01:32:26.860 · Speaker 6
Offices?
01:32:26.900 — 01:32:29.260 · Speaker 1
No, I think it was a parting gift.
01:32:29.300 — 01:32:29.980 · Speaker 2
I never got.
01:32:30.020 — 01:32:30.620 · Speaker 6
One.
01:32:30.740 — 01:32:31.580 · Speaker 2
Just sake.
01:32:32.380 — 01:32:37.620 · Speaker 1
Anyway, the point is, the the shows are the brand.
01:32:37.660 — 01:32:37.980 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:32:38.020 — 01:32:45.180 · Speaker 1
And we can use those brands to market with another good examples, Stranger Things.
01:32:45.220 — 01:32:45.660 · Speaker 6
Mhm.
01:32:45.700 — 01:32:55.260 · Speaker 1
Stranger things is a massive brand. Chocolate brand brings out a Stranger Things limited edition. They tap into that new audience. They sell more chocolate.
01:32:55.300 — 01:32:55.740 · Speaker 6
Mhm.
01:32:55.780 — 01:33:03.540 · Speaker 1
Right. So entertainment is just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And the brands would be silly not to get involved.
01:33:03.580 — 01:33:04.060 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:33:04.100 — 01:33:15.610 · Speaker 2
Sorry. In my ADHD ness, my brain just like, uh, went into a bus. You mentioned that the traitor’s has the podcast Component, which is. Yes. Exactly.
01:33:15.650 — 01:33:16.130 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:33:16.170 — 01:33:17.370 · Speaker 1
And multiple spins.
01:33:17.490 — 01:33:34.570 · Speaker 2
And, and the spin off of Stranger Things, which exists in this other iteration of the brand. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, what would be great is, uh, the, the, the and I’m not seeing it enough here.
01:33:35.730 — 01:33:45.690 · Speaker 2
Uh, is that the brands on roundtable with the producers,
01:33:46.770 — 01:33:47.850 · Speaker 2
which is a.
01:33:47.890 — 01:33:48.370 · Speaker 6
Key.
01:33:48.370 — 01:33:54.090 · Speaker 2
Component, I don’t know if it’s fear from the producers going like, don’t let them.
01:33:54.090 — 01:33:55.010 · Speaker 6
Into existence.
01:33:55.210 — 01:34:37.879 · Speaker 2
Or is it the fear of the brand? Uh, the marketing CMOs who are intimidated by this, this other thing. Right. But you need to be as big and as brazen as the egos in Hollywood, and I’ll come around the table and not be afraid. And, uh. And that was one really good thing that we learned at Endemol, which was, if you’re thinking it, say it.
We never, ever curated ourselves in. And that’s a very sort of Dutch way of. I mean.
01:34:37.919 — 01:34:39.800 · Speaker 6
They were very Dutch. There were.
01:34:39.800 — 01:34:42.159 · Speaker 7
Some very uncomfortable comments.
01:34:42.159 — 01:34:44.879 · Speaker 2
Especially like scripted stuff where people.
01:34:44.879 — 01:34:45.560 · Speaker 6
Would.
01:34:45.760 — 01:34:46.480 · Speaker 2
Say very.
01:34:46.480 — 01:34:47.200 · Speaker 6
Inappropriate.
01:34:47.240 — 01:34:49.840 · Speaker 2
Things, but it was so cool because it was a safe space.
01:34:49.879 — 01:34:50.520 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:34:50.560 — 01:35:13.310 · Speaker 2
And it was like you were allowed to just blurted out, you know, and and I think that kind of interaction from the brands in the, in the planning session, the planning session shouldn’t be about when do we start, when do we end? When can you give us the the digital clips so that we can put in seconds.
01:35:13.310 — 01:35:15.230 · Speaker 1
Am I getting my my logo on?
01:35:15.270 — 01:35:15.710 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:35:15.750 — 01:35:16.030 · Speaker 1
It shouldn’t.
01:35:16.030 — 01:35:17.030 · Speaker 6
Be that. Yeah.
01:35:17.070 — 01:35:34.950 · Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Because when you brown tablet the producer will take that or a good producer will take that information and go, which is what we do in brainstorm sessions. I see you, I raise you on. How about if we, uh.
01:35:35.630 — 01:35:35.870 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:35:35.950 — 01:35:36.910 · Speaker 6
Exactly. Right.
01:35:36.950 — 01:35:47.470 · Speaker 1
And to be honest, I think there is a bit of fear from the producer side. Yeah, because why is there this third voice all of a sudden telling me what to do?
01:35:47.510 — 01:35:47.830 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:35:47.870 — 01:35:49.310 · Speaker 1
So they react to that.
01:35:49.350 — 01:35:49.670 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:35:49.710 — 01:35:51.790 · Speaker 1
And that’s what we have to get rid of.
01:35:51.830 — 01:35:52.190 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:35:52.230 — 01:35:57.070 · Speaker 1
The brands need to understand that producers aren’t agencies, so they don’t jump.
01:35:57.070 — 01:35:57.630 · Speaker 6
As high.
01:35:57.950 — 01:35:59.070 · Speaker 2
Agency.
01:35:59.790 — 01:36:00.830 · Speaker 6
Jumping.
01:36:01.190 — 01:36:06.470 · Speaker 1
And the the producers need to understand that brands aren’t the enemy.
01:36:06.510 — 01:36:07.030 · Speaker 6
Yeah.
01:36:07.110 — 01:36:11.350 · Speaker 1
Yes they are there. It could be a really enhanced experience.
01:36:11.390 — 01:36:22.830 · Speaker 2
Absolutely. The mindset and approach needs to shift and change. And I’m I’m waiting to collaborate with brands.
01:36:23.590 — 01:36:24.030 · Speaker 6
Who.
01:36:24.150 — 01:36:29.830 · Speaker 2
Want to sit at that table and have the same fun we have. Trust me, there’s a lot of
01:36:31.030 — 01:37:00.390 · Speaker 2
stupid stuff that comes out. And like as you’re giving the idea, like putting tabling the idea as you’re saying it, you like, this is the worst. And even after you pitch it, you’re like, oh, this is terrible. Never mind. Scrap that. But have that kind of I think also we’re very much, uh, an option. We’re not a part of the plan.
Like, I’ve never had a brand come to.
01:37:02.070 — 01:37:02.790 · Speaker 6
At.
01:37:02.830 — 01:37:09.580 · Speaker 2
The places that I’ve worked at, proactively saying, I’m looking for this. It would always be a soft pitch to someone going like.
01:37:09.580 — 01:37:10.060 · Speaker 6
Hey.
01:37:11.220 — 01:37:49.140 · Speaker 2
You guys. Like really closely connected to soccer. What about a soccer show? And then and and and and then the brands would be great. Come and do a presentation. And which is why I think we’ve solved the problem call. They do need the integration of these executives who now will be specifically focused on the brands, uh, and, and and integrating them into, into content.
Is that important proactive step to making it part of the plan. And in that process, they should be farming out the briefs. If those executives,
01:37:50.420 — 01:37:53.740 · Speaker 2
uh, have done their homework and, and, and aren’t,
01:37:54.820 — 01:38:09.769 · Speaker 2
uh, um, you know, traditional marketing execs who now have this and understand content from a very theoretical standpoint, but understand production would then be having creative sessions, bringing in
01:38:11.410 — 01:38:25.650 · Speaker 2
the best in industry to help them be the best in industry, you know? Um, and, and it should be proactive and should start from the beginning versus, uh, I have a show for you. I’ll bring a show to you.
01:38:25.690 — 01:38:26.250 · Speaker 6
Yes.
01:38:26.290 — 01:38:26.650 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:38:26.690 — 01:38:35.090 · Speaker 1
And and often that makes the producer wary because now he has to change his show after development.
01:38:35.130 — 01:38:35.410 · Speaker 6
Yes.
01:38:35.490 — 01:38:38.210 · Speaker 1
To try and to create a brand somewhere. And then. That’s not.
01:38:38.210 — 01:38:39.610 · Speaker 6
That. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
01:38:39.650 — 01:38:43.450 · Speaker 2
I mean, it’s a cooking show. Why is there petroleum brand behind me?
01:38:43.810 — 01:38:44.930 · Speaker 6
Yes. You know.
01:38:44.970 — 01:38:46.170 · Speaker 1
And we know the one we’re talking.
01:38:46.170 — 01:38:46.810 · Speaker 6
About.
01:38:49.450 — 01:38:56.050 · Speaker 1
Okay, time for some quick fire cave questions. Are you ready?
01:38:56.090 — 01:38:56.650 · Speaker 6
Mhm.
01:38:57.330 — 01:38:58.450 · Speaker 1
True or false?
01:38:59.090 — 01:38:59.810 · Speaker 2
False.
01:38:59.850 — 01:39:00.570 · Speaker 1
No, man.
01:39:00.810 — 01:39:02.330 · Speaker 2
Go wait for the question. Okay.
01:39:03.170 — 01:39:04.650 · Speaker 1
Is YouTube TV?
01:39:04.800 — 01:39:06.160 · Speaker 2
Yes. True.
01:39:06.280 — 01:39:11.520 · Speaker 1
Okay. Is Nollywood versus South Africa film? Who wins quality battle 2026?
01:39:11.600 — 01:39:14.000 · Speaker 2
Complicated. Next. Okay.
01:39:14.280 — 01:39:18.880 · Speaker 1
AI in the writer’s room. Tool for efficiency or threat to the African soul.
01:39:18.920 — 01:39:19.920 · Speaker 2
Efficiency.
01:39:20.280 — 01:39:30.280 · Speaker 1
Okay, if you can think of one South African brand that needs entertainment in its life. Which brand would it be?
01:39:30.320 — 01:39:31.200 · Speaker 2
SABC.
01:39:34.200 — 01:39:35.000 · Speaker 1
Harsh.
01:39:35.920 — 01:39:36.840 · Speaker 2
That’s true.
01:39:38.000 — 01:39:39.920 · Speaker 1
Do you have any other words for the SABC?
01:39:40.200 — 01:39:43.840 · Speaker 2
I love you. We need you and we need you.
01:39:43.880 — 01:39:44.320 · Speaker 1
We need.
01:39:44.320 — 01:39:55.679 · Speaker 2
You. We absolutely need you. And, um, I’m tremendously passionate about our state broadcaster. We wouldn’t be here. MultiChoice wouldn’t be here. No one would be here without
01:39:56.880 — 01:39:59.880 · Speaker 2
the SABC. Let’s just get that right.
01:40:00.600 — 01:40:09.629 · Speaker 1
Okay. So if you had to bet your entire 2027 budget on which of these three things
01:40:11.350 — 01:40:12.670 · Speaker 1
Africans are going to know?
01:40:12.670 — 01:40:17.390 · Speaker 2
You have to do it in game show host voice, please. It’ll it will make me feel comfortable.
01:40:17.670 — 01:40:18.310 · Speaker 1
Oh, man.
01:40:18.350 — 01:40:20.590 · Speaker 7
I’m welcome to.
01:40:21.310 — 01:40:22.910 · Speaker 2
You’re a shitty producer.
01:40:23.470 — 01:40:28.510 · Speaker 1
Okay. Welcome to Brendon knows everything or nothing.
01:40:29.470 — 01:40:30.790 · Speaker 7
It’s an all or nothing.
01:40:30.830 — 01:40:31.990 · Speaker 1
It’s an all or nothing game.
01:40:32.030 — 01:40:36.270 · Speaker 2
Guys, take this down. This is a show. Brendan, right?
01:40:36.270 — 01:40:38.110 · Speaker 1
You have three options.
01:40:39.150 — 01:40:57.270 · Speaker 1
The first option is micro drama. The second option is podcasts. The third option is film. Which of those do you think Africans will love the most in 2027?
01:40:58.310 — 01:40:59.350 · Speaker 1
You have.
01:40:59.990 — 01:41:01.070 · Speaker 2
That is so.
01:41:01.070 — 01:41:01.630 · Speaker 7
Difficult.
01:41:01.670 — 01:41:03.150 · Speaker 1
Three seconds.
01:41:03.590 — 01:41:05.830 · Speaker 2
Uh. Micro dramas.
01:41:05.870 — 01:41:09.470 · Speaker 1
Okay. Nailed it. I.
01:41:09.910 — 01:41:15.790 · Speaker 2
I I’m just basing it off my the way I consume content.
01:41:17.350 — 01:41:22.110 · Speaker 2
TikTok, I watch it, it’s it’s rotting my brain. I do feel myself.
01:41:22.110 — 01:41:22.550 · Speaker 1
It’s so much.
01:41:22.550 — 01:41:25.710 · Speaker 2
Fun. It’s just I love it.
01:41:26.310 — 01:41:26.750 · Speaker 1
Okay, so.
01:41:26.950 — 01:41:28.150 · Speaker 2
I love the rabbit hole.
01:41:28.230 — 01:41:30.470 · Speaker 1
Micro dramas. Big next thing.
01:41:30.670 — 01:41:37.350 · Speaker 2
Yeah. But local local local local local local local. We’re not seeing ourselves.
01:41:37.390 — 01:41:37.910 · Speaker 1
No.
01:41:39.230 — 01:41:49.070 · Speaker 2
And not to say that the international stuff doesn’t work or will not work or is not working. It’s working. I’m really weird, you know. Why am I watching that?
01:41:49.150 — 01:41:51.470 · Speaker 1
It’s because the people that’s in the picture, it is.
01:41:51.750 — 01:41:53.790 · Speaker 2
It is great casting.
01:41:53.990 — 01:41:55.430 · Speaker 1
Great. Well, thanks, Brendan.
01:41:55.510 — 01:41:56.150 · Speaker 2
Is that.
01:41:56.190 — 01:42:00.940 · Speaker 1
It’s been awesome talking to you. Yeah. Yes. We can’t bore the audience any for that.
01:42:02.700 — 01:42:05.900 · Speaker 2
Thank you so much for. This is fun.
01:42:05.940 — 01:42:06.540 · Speaker 1
It is nice.
01:42:06.580 — 01:42:06.980 · Speaker 7
Yeah.
01:42:07.020 — 01:42:07.940 · Speaker 1
It’s like a chat.
01:42:07.980 — 01:42:16.380 · Speaker 2
I mean, the next evolution of this could be like a Jerry Springer kind of thing where we bring client and producer in.
01:42:16.500 — 01:42:17.900 · Speaker 7
And it’s like.
01:42:18.460 — 01:42:19.460 · Speaker 1
And we just throw.
01:42:19.460 — 01:42:21.220 · Speaker 7
Kali, Kali.
01:42:21.260 — 01:42:22.340 · Speaker 2
Kali.
01:42:23.340 — 01:42:23.900 · Speaker 7
Yeah.
01:42:24.580 — 01:42:27.820 · Speaker 1
Plus an actor plus talent influencer.
01:42:27.860 — 01:42:30.420 · Speaker 2
That I would watch that podcast.
01:42:30.460 — 01:42:33.180 · Speaker 1
It’s almost like Celebrity Deathmatch from 1998.
01:42:33.260 — 01:42:40.620 · Speaker 2
Oh, yes. Absolutely. I’m in. I created that. It is recorded.
01:42:41.380 — 01:42:52.860 · Speaker 1
Okay. Well thanks, Brendan. If you guys want to know anything about where content is going in Africa and how brands should get involved with entertainment, let us know in the comments and we’ll try to answer it. Until next time.
01:42:52.940 — 01:42:55.540 · Speaker 8
We’ll try and we’ll try our best
