Episode 56. Interview with the podcast “The Curse of the Creative” by Ultimate Media.txt
English (US)
01:00:00.080 — 01:00:06.360 · Speaker 1
Brands are very guilty of wanting to be on trend. What does authentic mean? Have your branded cushion on the couch.
01:00:06.520 — 01:00:08.520 · Speaker 2
And what is the curse of the case?
01:00:09.320 — 01:00:13.120 · Speaker 1
I mean, my LinkedIn persona. I hate that guy. He’s such a douchebag.
01:00:13.240 — 01:00:22.280 · Speaker 2
I mean, hey guys, welcome to the cave. Today we are joined by Paolo Diaz from Ultimate Media, who is also an avid podcaster.
01:00:22.320 — 01:00:23.800 · Speaker 3
Thank you for joining us today.
01:00:23.880 — 01:00:30.120 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Like I said before, it’s weird being on this side because I’m normally the host. So to be there.
01:00:30.200 — 01:00:37.440 · Speaker 2
So when you were saying that, I imagined you saying you used to being you’re not used to being on the side of the camera everywhere. That’s why I was everywhere.
01:00:37.440 — 01:00:41.360 · Speaker 1
Everywhere. Like, I wear many hats. And as bald guys, we have to. We’ve got to be careful.
01:00:41.400 — 01:00:41.600 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:00:41.640 — 01:00:43.600 · Speaker 1
The sun, the UV, these things.
01:00:44.720 — 01:00:52.200 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay, okay. Bro one. Yeah. Um, cool. So tell us a little bit about, um, Ultimate Media and your and your background.
01:00:52.240 — 01:01:24.720 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So Alton Media is a radio and audio consultancy business, right? So we specialize in basically what we work with brands and kind of advise them on how best to advertise on radio and more latterly, audio. So whether it’s podcasts or streaming and more than that. So it’s basically just go like it’s a very complicated landscape, 300 odd radio stations and all very odd and like how do you get the best out of them?
You know, instead of speaking to all 300, speak to us and we find the right audience for you and the right promotion and the right campaign.
01:01:24.720 — 01:01:26.920 · Speaker 3
I had no idea we had that many in our country.
01:01:26.960 — 01:01:47.320 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, it’s a lot. It’s not as many as I think they should be, to be honest with you. You know, radio is like a huge, huge medium. You know, I mean, we’re talking, like, 70% of people listening. Yeah. And I think the power in that is listening in their own language, you know, not specifically English. And so I think that’s the power.
It should be bigger because I think it’s run by a cabal, if I’m honest.
01:01:47.560 — 01:01:49.880 · Speaker 2
But it is what it is.
01:01:50.320 — 01:01:55.360 · Speaker 3
And how did working in radio lead you into podcasting?
01:01:55.400 — 01:01:55.760 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:01:55.800 — 01:01:58.070 · Speaker 3
Or was the journey. Not really that.
01:01:58.110 — 01:02:16.310 · Speaker 1
Sit back young people in uncle party regalia. Um, so I started doing podcasting before. It’s called podcasting, right? So I started working in radio in 2002. And like anybody who works in radio, want to be on air. That’s your thing. Right. Even though I don’t want to be on air.
01:02:16.350 — 01:02:17.870 · Speaker 3
Is there anything other than that?
01:02:17.910 — 01:03:00.030 · Speaker 1
Exactly. There’s a whole bunch of background jobs, but everybody just wants to be on air, right? Yeah. And, um, so we were like, you know, do demo stuff, would mess around in studios and do, like, bad prank calls and bad parody songs and things like that. That’s what people are doing on radio. And then we’re like, nobody would ever play it.
And we get chased out of program managers offices and, uh, we still had these things. And at the time, people started putting music online. So we had LimeWire and Napster and stuff like that. So we’re like, well, if I can put a song, I can put those right, so we’d do it. And these communities are popping up based on audio, and other people are doing it, and full shows and audio books at the time.
And then ten years later, this thing podcasting pops up. We’re like, oh, that’s what we were doing.
01:03:00.070 — 01:03:01.670 · Speaker 3
Oh, that’s the name.
01:03:01.750 — 01:03:13.630 · Speaker 1
That was it. That’s okay. Um, so that was it. It just was a natural extension then. I think it was quite weird now because a lot of people go, oh, podcasting is an extension of TV, but it started as an extension of radio.
01:03:13.670 — 01:03:15.110 · Speaker 2
Very audio focused.
01:03:15.150 — 01:03:15.790 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:15.830 — 01:03:20.270 · Speaker 3
We also are constantly talking about the topic of what should this be called.
01:03:20.310 — 01:03:20.630 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:03:20.670 — 01:03:21.990 · Speaker 3
Does the word. Yeah.
01:03:22.030 — 01:03:24.390 · Speaker 2
Does the talk show really. Or like.
01:03:24.510 — 01:03:24.910 · Speaker 1
Does the.
01:03:25.110 — 01:03:26.590 · Speaker 3
Podcast mean anything anymore?
01:03:26.630 — 01:03:36.270 · Speaker 1
It doesn’t. It’s become this hold all for anything. You know, it’s like talk show or the technical thing is does it have an RSS feed? But even that’s changed because it’s like.
01:03:36.310 — 01:03:43.550 · Speaker 2
We did a whole episode on RSS feeds. That’s it hasn’t gained much traction. It doesn’t. Yeah. It doesn’t. We the people just did not come.
01:03:43.590 — 01:03:43.910 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:03:44.390 — 01:03:44.990 · Speaker 2
Watch that one.
01:03:45.150 — 01:03:52.990 · Speaker 1
It’s. Oh, it’s when you have to insult somebody. Explain to them an RSS feed because it’s like your phone number for your podcast. But what’s your phone number? It’s like.
01:03:52.990 — 01:03:59.980 · Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. It’s like, literally the oldest technology. Yeah. I mean, it doesn’t even really work anymore.
01:04:00.020 — 01:04:00.340 · Speaker 1
No, no.
01:04:00.340 — 01:04:02.380 · Speaker 2
No, not for video.
01:04:02.420 — 01:04:12.820 · Speaker 1
It’s completely shifting. So I mean, even I mean, like like I think we the week we record this kind of Apple has switched on video themselves. So it goes okay, well, what the hell does that mean now? Yes.
01:04:13.060 — 01:04:15.580 · Speaker 3
What it means is a whole lot more work for people like us.
01:04:15.620 — 01:04:19.260 · Speaker 1
Yes. Okay. Good luck. And many, many more caves in.
01:04:19.260 — 01:04:19.380 · Speaker 3
The.
01:04:19.380 — 01:04:19.700 · Speaker 1
Future.
01:04:19.739 — 01:04:27.140 · Speaker 3
Yeah. So since you’ve been in this space for this period of time, you’ve seen all kinds of evolutions.
01:04:27.180 — 01:04:27.700 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:04:27.740 — 01:04:30.860 · Speaker 3
What do you think we should be doing as brands now?
01:04:32.900 — 01:04:47.620 · Speaker 1
Yeah, I think as brands stop chasing the cool. You know, I think brands are very guilty of wanting to be on trend. That’s why podcasts are a thing now. Right? Because they’ve got a podcast. People are doing podcasts. People listen to podcasts and they chase it. And I don’t chase it for the right reason.
01:04:47.660 — 01:04:48.180 · Speaker 3
Yes.
01:04:48.220 — 01:04:48.620 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:04:48.660 — 01:04:49.180 · Speaker 3
Consider the.
01:04:49.180 — 01:04:57.179 · Speaker 2
Why. What what what do you think the right reason is? I would say it’s just to kind of be more authentic and
01:04:58.180 — 01:04:58.660 · Speaker 2
I don’t know.
01:04:58.740 — 01:04:59.820 · Speaker 3
A human being in.
01:04:59.860 — 01:05:01.340 · Speaker 2
The. Oh, yeah.
01:05:01.420 — 01:05:05.300 · Speaker 1
What does authentic mean? Have your branded cushion on the couch. You know what I mean?
01:05:05.420 — 01:05:08.420 · Speaker 3
Well, yes, I think that’s that’s it. They look identical.
01:05:08.420 — 01:05:17.260 · Speaker 2
Is authentic. It’s a bit it’s a bit of a buzzy word thing, but, like, just getting in front of people, I suppose. I don’t know. What value do you see?
01:05:17.540 — 01:05:38.420 · Speaker 1
So I mean, look, there’s I’ve been through the phases of like, brands making their own podcasts and they go, why does nobody listen? I was like, because I promise this is the thing, right? I’m sure you get it as well. Uh, how many people in South Africa are listening to podcasts? I say it’s irrelevant to you, Mr. Brand, because they’re not sitting there waiting for your podcast.
Right? They’re waiting for others. Right? They barely.
01:05:38.420 — 01:05:38.660 · Speaker 2
When they’re.
01:05:38.660 — 01:05:38.900 · Speaker 1
Waiting.
01:05:38.900 — 01:05:40.660 · Speaker 2
For entertainment, podcasts.
01:05:40.860 — 01:05:41.420 · Speaker 3
They’re waiting for you.
01:05:41.660 — 01:06:18.820 · Speaker 1
So that’s not relevant. So who is your existing audience? Let’s find you. So like I’ll go back the first branded podcast I did, we didn’t have we didn’t have RSS feeds. I think we ran everything through Iona, so it would have been an RSS feed, but we didn’t have much social media to to work off of. But we bought their following.
Their most vibrant thing in their business was their emails and their email community. And the open rate was through the roof. Whatever that meant then, right, subsequently funnel all these things or nonsense. But we would post the podcast within their email and that’s how we’d get people to listen.
01:06:18.860 — 01:06:19.140 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:06:19.180 — 01:06:32.380 · Speaker 1
Because that’s where your audience is, right? So I say to the brands before I go in, we’re going, okay, let’s find where is your biggest audience? So we look at social. Do you have an internal WhatsApp? Do you have some CRM somewhere? And let’s find where people are already talking to you.
01:06:32.420 — 01:06:35.260 · Speaker 3
So you just changed the delivery mechanism completely.
01:06:35.420 — 01:06:43.140 · Speaker 1
And then it changes your conversation as well. So I’m not like throwing it out there and hoping that somebody who listens to diary of a CEO is going to find it.
01:06:43.300 — 01:06:43.980 · Speaker 3
Find this one.
01:06:44.020 — 01:07:18.650 · Speaker 1
It’s like they’re not going to they intentionally want to cut that out. So go where people are really engaging with you and the authentic stuff comes in. And I did say this two days ago to like, quite a big, like, blue chip brand. I said, if you’re going to go on a podcast, don’t be yourself. Like take your CEO.
If he plays, pedal like, put him on a paddle podcast, like having rights or put him there. If you’ve got somebody within your business, they’re a musician or an artist that’s authentic. Because now I’m talking to you about what I as a human am, rather than trying to put.
01:07:18.650 — 01:07:21.210 · Speaker 3
This and can actually connect with. That’s it. Yeah.
01:07:21.250 — 01:07:29.370 · Speaker 1
Like I’m a real human being, but they don’t want to do that. I’m Mr. C-suite. I don’t, you know, spend all this time trying to get C-suite so that I can talk to you about paddle.
01:07:29.410 — 01:07:32.450 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, try and be identifiable.
01:07:32.490 — 01:07:47.890 · Speaker 3
It’s such an interesting take. Like, we are trying to get businesses to understand that we’re moving into a space now where anyone can create any content, and the consumer is going to be completely flooded with, is this real? Isn’t this real
01:07:48.930 — 01:08:30.130 · Speaker 3
eyes out there, we can all use it. And so everyone’s a content creator overnight. And if you are being a human where other people can see you or hear you being a human, you are going to cut through the noise and people can connect as another human to you, as a human. So for us, it’s that’s the authenticity we’re trying to get them to think about.
But what you’ve already identified quite quickly for our listeners is that for a lot of brands, that authenticity is a logo on a couch and now present. But it’s not that. It’s like the actual people having actual conversations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:30.170 — 01:08:41.810 · Speaker 2
Well, we were talking about it earlier. It’s like people who put an effort now are going to be seen. Yeah, because it’s like an effort economy. Yeah, yeah. Everything else is just so bloody easy.
01:08:41.849 — 01:08:44.010 · Speaker 1
And just you’re sloppy and samey. Yeah.
01:08:44.690 — 01:08:53.690 · Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, Apollo, can you talk to us a little bit about how the South African Podcasters Guild came to be and what is its purpose?
01:08:53.770 — 01:08:55.249 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it was like the
01:08:56.290 — 01:09:30.130 · Speaker 1
an idea that we’re like hundreds of years in the making. So I kept having conversation with a different podcasters. And it’s an independent thing. Like, you guys got a lot of people helping you on this. Most people don’t have this, right. Solo or by yourself. And you’re figuring out and you have figured it out by yourself.
And and you got to this point and I kept having conversations with different people. We should do something. We should do something, we should do something. And I got encouraged by, like, pretty big media owners to say, like, if you guys did something, we would support you. You know, even if it’s a beer and pizza organization or whatever, you guys do get people together.
So we
01:09:31.330 — 01:10:52.800 · Speaker 1
kept having this conversation and kept having this conversation. And when I used to go around doing some of these podcast inspiration sessions, so I would invite all the podcasters I know would like, have a like get in a coffee shop or a bar, you know, rent out the place for the day. Get it donated for the day, actually.
And then get, like, all my podcast friends around. Like big, big people like Nicole Engelbrecht and Sami RF and and these sorts of people. And we’re just like talk about everyone. Like how they broke through what they did, their challenges. And at one of the particular ones, Jonathan Vanko was there and he was like, we should do this.
And I said, yes, we should do this. And Sean Lutz was there and we should. And eventually I met a group of people who did do this. So I think within a week we were registered. Within two weeks a website was up and it was like, yeah, for the first time we started moving. And then the momentum was just there and having like big name people in with us from the start was pretty good.
And like we just got a lot of support from like the mainstream, like media entities, your traditional legacy media entities. And it just really grew from there. We’re sitting on around about 500 members now. Amazing. All individuals and people mostly. Most aren’t there to make money out of their podcast, but they use their podcast as their business card.
Almost. Yeah. Um, and there are podcasters, there are chefs, there are lawyers, there are vets, there are, uh, fishermen. There’s like, everybody making a podcast.
01:10:52.880 — 01:10:56.200 · Speaker 2
We spend quite a lot of time going through all of those. Yeah. Very, very cool.
01:10:56.240 — 01:10:57.240 · Speaker 3
It’s so diverse.
01:10:57.280 — 01:11:02.240 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. We actually went through there looking for guests, essentially people.
01:11:02.240 — 01:11:02.480 · Speaker 3
To.
01:11:02.520 — 01:11:03.720 · Speaker 2
Talk to about podcasts.
01:11:03.760 — 01:11:26.040 · Speaker 1
Yeah, there are great people in there and everyone’s story is different. And you know, what’s really, really cool is like, we’ve got like a very, very vibrant, uh, WhatsApp group, WhatsApp communities. But you know what? The thing is? You can post a question about like something and you’ll just have some of the smartest minds in podcasting in this country answering you for nothing.
And it’s like, that’s invaluable.
01:11:26.080 — 01:11:27.280 · Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:27.360 — 01:11:31.440 · Speaker 2
So tell us a bit about your tell us a bit about the curse of the creative.
01:11:31.520 — 01:11:32.120 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:11:32.280 — 01:11:34.520 · Speaker 2
As a creative, what is.
01:11:34.520 — 01:11:37.680 · Speaker 3
It? Is that a bonkers podcast is what I’d like to say.
01:11:39.960 — 01:11:41.000 · Speaker 3
It’s bonkers.
01:11:42.430 — 01:12:06.710 · Speaker 1
So it’s it was basically created. I have to give credit. It was he was working with us, Greg Aldridge. Um, if you listen to radio, the Greg and Lachy show, he used the Greg, and he was working with us for a while, and he came up with the idea and the format and everything, and it was basically like, we’re like our brainstorms for our clients are funny.
Like, we have a good time, like, like that whole thing. Oh, what’s so funny? We should have a podcast.
01:12:07.070 — 01:12:07.710 · Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:12:08.110 — 01:12:08.750 · Speaker 3
We should record.
01:12:08.750 — 01:12:10.390 · Speaker 4
This. Yes. Except we were like.
01:12:10.910 — 01:12:32.990 · Speaker 1
Radio guys, like, I think. What? Yeah, three other guys on air at the time. And so, um, and it’s basically a really short format. The longest episode ever is ten minutes. Yeah. We take a brief come up with a radio concept, pitch each other an idea, and then we evaluate each other’s ideas and the rankings. Are we?
01:12:32.990 — 01:12:37.030 · Speaker 4
Yes, we fly to it, which means go straight to air pockets.
01:12:37.030 — 01:12:56.150 · Speaker 1
Means it needs to be better and flush it straight down the toilet. right? So it’s very radio in its format and gimmicky ness, but it’s made for those people. So our audience is radio creatives, people who sit in programing and promotions departments around the world. I mean, we really get into action from around the world.
01:12:56.190 — 01:12:56.710 · Speaker 4
Because.
01:12:56.750 — 01:13:06.430 · Speaker 1
It’s so it’s that niche thing, but it’s such a specific job in such a specific industry, but nobody does it. We’ve taken way too long a break. Then we wanted.
01:13:06.430 — 01:13:06.670 · Speaker 4
To.
01:13:07.270 — 01:13:14.150 · Speaker 1
Um, made the mistake of we shifted to video and we actually let that derail the whole thing. So we’re kind of like, we’re radio guys.
01:13:14.150 — 01:13:16.310 · Speaker 4
Let’s just let’s go back to the audio.
01:13:16.470 — 01:13:17.390 · Speaker 1
Um, and.
01:13:17.470 — 01:13:57.310 · Speaker 3
Yeah, I’ve only I’ve only listened, but my preference has always been audio. So I tend to listen to most of my content rather than watch it. And I felt like the, the vibe was exactly what we see in our studio. Like, I felt an instant connection and it felt fun and occasionally silly, and it was fantastic. And I think the fact that it’s so different to the other kinds of content that I typically listen to it, it was great.
And the fact that it’s short is awesome. Um, definitely get back on it, please.
01:13:57.350 — 01:14:04.910 · Speaker 1
And it pitches us as a business, right? Because that’s ultimately what it is. These are the guys if you as a business putting a brief into us, we’re the ones.
01:14:04.910 — 01:14:06.470 · Speaker 3
What’s going to happen right.
01:14:07.030 — 01:14:07.910 · Speaker 1
Sorry.
01:14:09.270 — 01:14:09.670 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:14:09.710 — 01:14:15.950 · Speaker 1
But at least you know what you’re getting into. So we look at it from that point of view, it was it’s like the ultimate, like kind of business card.
01:14:15.950 — 01:14:27.510 · Speaker 3
Right. And what is the process for your recording? Do you guys do that once a week. Or do you do it every day or do you do it. I don’t know. Like as it happens.
01:14:27.790 — 01:14:34.310 · Speaker 1
This is WhatsApp group who can record tomorrow. No, go to hell. I’m busy. Don’t tell me the day before. Yes. Yeah. No, but we we.
01:14:34.310 — 01:14:38.580 · Speaker 2
There’s a lot of you on there. Yes. So you coordinate must be a bit of a mission.
01:14:38.620 — 01:15:03.660 · Speaker 1
It is. So we rotate around. We try to keep it myself as the host, then 2 or 3 on and then we rotate between everybody. When we record the record in batches and because they are short, we can do 4 or 5 in a row. They catch edited and then we we actually dropped them all at once because they’re so short. And we actually find we promote them weekly as they come out, but they all get released one at a time, again.
01:15:03.660 — 01:15:04.260 · Speaker 3
At the same time.
01:15:04.540 — 01:15:18.980 · Speaker 1
Because they’re short. And also the people who listen to them need them that way. Right. We’ve had people say like, just let you know I’ve stolen your idea. That’s why we do it. Like, yes, that’s why we do it, you know? Um, so that’s kind.
01:15:18.980 — 01:15:38.220 · Speaker 3
Of that was one of my big questions was, do you know, people are stealing your ideas because that is what it does. Is it sparks a thought? Yeah. You know, I was listening to to the one the other day and I was thinking about one of our clients, and I was like, oh, this could work in this industry. Yeah. So that’s I don’t know.
That’s what’s happening.
01:15:38.380 — 01:16:06.260 · Speaker 1
Podcasts need utility. Right. So it’s like if you can take this and do it, it’s cool. Like you’re you know, that’s the kind of the point of it. A lot of the stuff we do is stuff we could never fly it for a client, but if somebody can figure out how to do it, flood it for their station, whatever, like that’s the point.
And then you know what they’ll do? They’ll come back. Even if they’re stealing ideas, they’ve got to listen to steal it. So we got a listener. So it’s like, you know, that’s that’s what we’re after. Like, we make the money, get the listeners going.
01:16:06.300 — 01:16:08.820 · Speaker 2
Yeah. And what is the curse of the creative.
01:16:09.460 — 01:16:10.620 · Speaker 1
Working in radio?
01:16:12.180 — 01:16:13.660 · Speaker 1
That’s right.
01:16:13.820 — 01:16:16.380 · Speaker 2
I think just working as a creative shame.
01:16:16.380 — 01:16:41.980 · Speaker 1
You know, that’s the curse that a lot of creatives don’t work. So that’s, that’s kind of can’t get work. So that’s kind of the bad thing. I think the curse of the creative is the rejection. Right? If you want to get deep about it, it’s like, this thing is so strange. So, um, we did a I don’t like I’m not going to get into an AI thing because I’m not an AI expert, but because everyone is a member and everyone is a Bitcoin expert and they’re all like, what?
The monkey.
01:16:42.220 — 01:16:42.460 · Speaker 2
Does.
01:16:43.020 — 01:16:50.260 · Speaker 1
The coin. What is the coin of the monkey? NFTs in any area? Yeah. So no, it’s all those bros on our AI experts.
01:16:50.300 — 01:16:52.460 · Speaker 2
I’m so glad I didn’t waste my time then.
01:16:52.500 — 01:16:52.740 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:16:53.220 — 01:16:54.580 · Speaker 5
Are you gonna skip AI as well?
01:16:54.620 — 01:16:56.820 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I would try as well. Yeah.
01:16:57.060 — 01:17:59.450 · Speaker 1
So, um, the. I’ve lost my train of thought because I was making fun of crypto bros. Yeah. It’s like. So it’s it’s usual. The curse of the creative, right? Yeah. So what I, you know, I think what, what an easy process is, is that you get like some sort of AI tool to make your mock up video. You are fully once a human and the best guys working on my final video, but I don’t want to.
I want to get it to something that I can brief them properly so we’re closer to the idea. And of course when you present it to non creative people, they’re going to rip the thing to pieces and almost like kind of having that non emotional Feedback. Give that non emotional feedback to something, even for me, because if I knew I had a briefer person, I would have got defensive about that feedback because I was like, oh, I don’t want to tell them because they put effort into this or whatever.
And now I got to broach it. You’re making work for me now. It’s like, here’s the feedback, do it, fix it. And then we can get a storyboard in. The storyboard can go to people. So I think that rejection is the curse of the creative. Yeah. And having no money. Having no.
01:17:59.450 — 01:17:59.730 · Speaker 2
Money.
01:18:00.050 — 01:18:01.010 · Speaker 3
I think there’s a long.
01:18:01.010 — 01:18:06.450 · Speaker 5
List of curses for creators. Actually, the curse is the curse of the creators.
01:18:06.490 — 01:18:08.450 · Speaker 2
The tortured creatives.
01:18:08.690 — 01:18:16.330 · Speaker 3
I sometimes think one of our biggest curses is that we are forced into being creative for the commercial elements.
01:18:16.330 — 01:18:16.690 · Speaker 5
So it’s.
01:18:16.690 — 01:18:17.890 · Speaker 2
Not monetizing.
01:18:18.130 — 01:18:18.730 · Speaker 5
It’s not.
01:18:18.770 — 01:18:25.530 · Speaker 3
It’s not so much the joy of it anymore. Now it’s the must of it, you know, like you have to.
01:18:26.090 — 01:18:31.090 · Speaker 1
What’s your brainstorm process? How often is it in person or how often is it virtually.
01:18:31.090 — 01:18:32.770 · Speaker 3
We only work in person.
01:18:33.010 — 01:18:33.690 · Speaker 5
Brain candy.
01:18:33.730 — 01:18:42.690 · Speaker 2
We are an in person. Has to be rather unpopular. Yeah we are. Is that a word? It’s definitely not rather unpopular. We agree.
01:18:42.850 — 01:18:43.010 · Speaker 1
It’s.
01:18:43.010 — 01:18:49.690 · Speaker 2
Made up. We are an in person agency. We all go to the office every day. No. Um.
01:18:50.210 — 01:18:51.250 · Speaker 5
Yes. Our brainstorm.
01:18:51.250 — 01:18:54.930 · Speaker 2
Brainstorming to be in person and like it is. It’s chaotic.
01:18:54.970 — 01:19:17.250 · Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s it. Because like, we so, so many businesses have, like, are obviously virtual. And then you have a virtual brainstorm like how can you do that. And it’s allotted and it’s got to be done in this time. And somebody gives the brief and then they and go and there’s 15 minutes of your meeting. And it’s like so much of creativity is vibing off somebody.
Exactly. It’s like seeing a movement or seeing a reaction, even presenting to a client.
01:19:17.290 — 01:19:26.650 · Speaker 3
It’s it’s it’s something happening that’s completely unrelated that makes you think about something you were trying to solve yesterday that suddenly resolves your idea.
01:19:26.690 — 01:19:28.290 · Speaker 1
Someone’s shoes. Are you like, whoa.
01:19:28.330 — 01:19:28.770 · Speaker 5
Yes.
01:19:28.810 — 01:19:38.320 · Speaker 3
Exactly. So. And it’s not a linear process. We spend actually a tremendous amount of time with our creative team, helping them get to grips with things coming back and.
01:19:38.320 — 01:19:40.880 · Speaker 5
Back, back, back into the.
01:19:40.880 — 01:19:55.160 · Speaker 3
Creative process because someone’s had a better idea or someone’s thought of it from a different angle, or someone got sparked by somebody in their granny said. Or, you know, it’s you can’t force it into.
01:19:55.320 — 01:19:56.600 · Speaker 5
The time slot or.
01:19:56.600 — 01:20:21.880 · Speaker 2
The curse of being an agency. Like there are workflows and deadlines and deadlines and time allocated to people, and then the creative gets all upset when something comes back and they’re like, oh, but I did this. No, I’ve got to do it again. And you’re like, yeah, but there’s been other things that have happened now and the, the just the structure around agency and work doesn’t work well for a creative.
01:20:21.880 — 01:21:03.680 · Speaker 1
So it’s wild that we then go to now use a podcast as a creative tool. Right. Because now. You got this frustration in a short format thing. Now you put this you put that because all that you spoke about doesn’t change because you’re doing a podcast, right. You’re not going to record for 45 minutes. You’ve done everything and our client wants to start changing and you go, how do I go back?
This was my thing that I put out in the world. I normally do this thing and it’s kind of like going like, how do we not make the same mistakes because they mistakes when we’re doing a 32nd TV ad now translate it into like long form human interaction thing that’s, you know, well.
01:21:03.680 — 01:21:03.960 · Speaker 5
I think.
01:21:04.000 — 01:21:04.720 · Speaker 1
It’s just 100.
01:21:04.720 — 01:21:04.920 · Speaker 5
Times.
01:21:04.960 — 01:21:09.560 · Speaker 3
I think it just goes right back to the original question of, should you even be on a podcast?
01:21:09.600 — 01:21:10.360 · Speaker 5
Yeah, yeah.
01:21:10.400 — 01:21:31.320 · Speaker 3
Because there is tremendous commitment there compared to a TVC. And, you know, I think for a podcast to work really well for a brand, depending on who they are and what they do, there needs to be a human element. And that means time that is dedicated. And if you can’t get that buy in from from the beginning.
Don’t force it. Don’t bother. It’s not. It won’t.
01:21:31.320 — 01:21:32.200 · Speaker 5
Work. That’s it.
01:21:32.240 — 01:21:33.680 · Speaker 3
It won’t work. Yeah.
01:21:34.360 — 01:21:37.440 · Speaker 2
So you guys produce podcasts for brands?
01:21:37.520 — 01:21:58.440 · Speaker 1
We do. Um, this goes back into my radio station days. We did the first branded podcast for brand, right? Branded what we thought was a podcast back then. Um, we were very naive. There was no such thing. Um, so we do. We produce for brands. Um, pretty much quite a few. I think we’ve got the longest running branded podcast in South Africa for the Heart Train.
01:21:58.480 — 01:21:58.840 · Speaker 5
Wow.
01:21:58.880 — 01:22:01.360 · Speaker 1
I’m pretty sure we’re one year. Ten.
01:22:02.280 — 01:22:03.120 · Speaker 5
Pretty sure.
01:22:03.560 — 01:22:09.520 · Speaker 2
How do you convince people that a podcast is the right tool for them?
01:22:09.560 — 01:23:11.950 · Speaker 1
It normally makes sense once you identify what their audience is. So for Car Train. I have to admit I’m so upset, but it guided me because I inherited it as a production piece. And then we took it over, right? And the strategy and everything, but they used it as an internal communications tool. They’ve got so much information they need to disseminate with stuff, and people just aren’t going to read stuff.
And you can take like a manual like that thick. And if you’re listening to this, I’m making a thick manual motion. Um, and now you can condense it and carry the information out in seven minutes with the person who, you know, runs the project. Now, it’s not it’s not hugely public facing, but it’s very specific for their business.
And I think that’s where it is, like once you figure out what role it solves in their business. And I’ve had it with cartoon like, well, let’s be public. Let’s be this. I say, okay, I understand, but that’s not what your strategy is. We want to change everything. And so it’s about going once you figure out what your audience is and what role it serves in your business.
01:23:11.990 — 01:23:12.550 · Speaker 5
Yes.
01:23:12.590 — 01:23:15.270 · Speaker 1
Then, you know, then it’s easy to convince.
01:23:15.310 — 01:23:24.590 · Speaker 3
Maybe it’s almost like they’ve got to convince us, as the brand custodians, that they even should have a podcast.
01:23:25.150 — 01:23:25.910 · Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly.
01:23:25.950 — 01:23:27.670 · Speaker 5
Like, exactly like if you can.
01:23:27.670 — 01:23:32.590 · Speaker 3
Convince me of how this is going to be valuable for the strategy we’ve all agreed.
01:23:32.590 — 01:23:33.190 · Speaker 5
On.
01:23:33.830 — 01:23:39.950 · Speaker 3
I know we’re out there saying, guys, think about a podcast as an option, but, you know, they’ve almost got to do the convincing, not.
01:23:39.950 — 01:23:40.830 · Speaker 5
The other way around.
01:23:40.870 — 01:23:51.750 · Speaker 1
And normally you see where the podcast comes from, right. And where it’s going to go. So if the podcast comes from the brand team where there’s a big digital focus, you go, you guys don’t want a podcast, you guys want shorts and real.
01:23:51.790 — 01:23:52.550 · Speaker 5
You want a channel.
01:23:52.590 — 01:24:10.470 · Speaker 1
That’s exactly that’s what you want. You want social media content. You know what that looks like. People in a podcast. Yeah. And then if it comes from the content team or PR team, you’re going to have a very different conversation. So it’s almost like you’ve got to understand which side of the business or the person kind of approaching you’re talking to.
Yeah, how it’s going to turn out.
01:24:10.510 — 01:24:30.430 · Speaker 2
Our whole shtick is that we do the the film, the film, the podcast, and then we break it down into shorts and stuff for Instagram. So like, this is the the 30 minute episode or whatever, and we get a lot of mileage from that. So that’s like a little, I don’t know, selling point for brands because you get the content that.
01:24:30.430 — 01:24:30.830 · Speaker 5
Comes with.
01:24:30.830 — 01:24:31.910 · Speaker 3
Generation Tool as.
01:24:31.910 — 01:24:32.270 · Speaker 5
Well.
01:24:32.310 — 01:24:40.790 · Speaker 1
We released we did a podcast where there was no long episode. We just shot ten shorts, ten clickable things. There was never any long.
01:24:40.830 — 01:24:41.990 · Speaker 2
Episode that.
01:24:42.390 — 01:24:42.630 · Speaker 5
Didn’t.
01:24:42.630 — 01:24:43.470 · Speaker 2
Work well.
01:24:43.510 — 01:24:58.190 · Speaker 1
But got got what they needed because a long form content. This is the thing. Oh, how many views am I going to get? Or how long do you have? Like this takes a while to tell you. It’s easier on video because YouTube does trigger quicker, but the audio platforms don’t work as quick.
01:24:58.230 — 01:24:58.550 · Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:24:58.870 — 01:25:05.110 · Speaker 1
But now I’m going to put something out so I can boost it. I can trick the algorithm, you know, I can see results and YouTube.
01:25:05.150 — 01:25:08.230 · Speaker 2
You can link the short to the full video now, which is that’s like.
01:25:08.230 — 01:25:08.590 · Speaker 5
A little it’s.
01:25:08.590 — 01:25:08.750 · Speaker 3
More.
01:25:08.750 — 01:25:09.630 · Speaker 5
Useful now.
01:25:09.670 — 01:25:16.230 · Speaker 2
When you when you have a long form piece, it’s sometimes quite difficult to cut shorts out of it. That actually makes sense.
01:25:16.270 — 01:25:16.430 · Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:25:16.470 — 01:25:17.710 · Speaker 2
So just do the show if you just.
01:25:17.870 — 01:25:19.630 · Speaker 5
Do the shorts. Yeah.
01:25:20.420 — 01:25:36.460 · Speaker 1
I did that when I relaunched my sports podcast. Right? Um, that’s all I did the first couple of weeks. I didn’t have a long episode. We just dropped the shorts. Okay, that was it. Yeah, that was it. And it grew, grew, grew, grew. And then when we launched the long episode, kind of the full episodes of camp.
01:25:37.060 — 01:25:38.340 · Speaker 5
What was the structure of that?
01:25:38.340 — 01:25:40.900 · Speaker 3
Was it, uh, commentary after the fact?
01:25:40.940 — 01:25:41.420 · Speaker 5
Yeah, it was.
01:25:41.420 — 01:25:44.740 · Speaker 1
Just like our normal style content. But instead of doing the long stuff, it was just like.
01:25:44.740 — 01:25:45.340 · Speaker 5
The quick.
01:25:45.380 — 01:26:02.420 · Speaker 1
Snack. Snack stuff. Sorry, guys. I was clicking the quick, stackable stuff. Um, and that’s what people want, right? Especially in a sports content audience. They just want to scroll, scroll, scroll till they find somebody saying what they think or something they vehemently don’t think to disagree with.
01:26:02.460 — 01:26:05.260 · Speaker 2
And that’s got to be fairly current. If you’re doing something like that, you’ve sort.
01:26:05.260 — 01:26:05.700 · Speaker 5
Of fought.
01:26:05.700 — 01:26:08.220 · Speaker 2
Hard all the time. It’s like news and sports.
01:26:08.260 — 01:26:09.620 · Speaker 1
Yeah, sports is impossible.
01:26:09.860 — 01:26:11.540 · Speaker 3
How do you find the discipline for that?
01:26:11.540 — 01:26:58.340 · Speaker 1
So I don’t we actually stopped. We kind of like do special project type of stuff. I think when you’re doing sports content, which we’ve done before, and we did very well with it, is that you got to do it? So even weekly, we were doing weekly. It wasn’t quick enough. Yes. And then the problem is with sports is you’ve got to be so divisive.
I think it’s like news. You’ve got to be clickbait, you’ve got to say outrageous things. And we didn’t consider ourselves like those guys. Like, we like, look smart about sports. We understand it. We understand it’s not a PlayStation game that, like, you win all the time and every pass is perfect. And we kind of like, didn’t want to get into space.
We were all clickbait. And then you’re competing with massive names. So in a sports content, if like we’re talking about Manchester and Liverpool and Paul Scholes and Nicky Butts are talking about match nights in Liverpool, who are you going.
01:26:58.340 — 01:26:59.220 · Speaker 5
To listen getting that.
01:26:59.540 — 01:27:29.650 · Speaker 1
Right. So we’re kind of and they’re being divisive. Like that’s just wasn’t our vibe. So we do like more documentary kind of like um, short form content but like nostalgia stuff or whatever. But like that feels better and more for us. We’ve got a real budget coming up for the World Cup, and that feels more like event based stuff feels a bit better because you can concentrate.
Do the right thing. Don’t have to chase the clicks because it’s a brute. Anybody doing sports content regularly? Yeah.
01:27:29.690 — 01:27:30.370 · Speaker 5
Hats off to.
01:27:30.410 — 01:27:34.410 · Speaker 3
The FIFA World Cup is going to be problematic, I think, for content creators, just with the time.
01:27:34.410 — 01:27:34.890 · Speaker 5
Difference.
01:27:34.930 — 01:27:47.130 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So we’ve like have to find the perfect slot to land in, um, to actually make sure we’re hitting something. Yeah. But yeah, you’re not going to get it right. I’m going to get it perfect.
01:27:47.170 — 01:27:52.690 · Speaker 2
So tell us about you’ve done some love stuff before. Yeah, that sounds.
01:27:52.730 — 01:27:54.730 · Speaker 5
Terrifying to me.
01:27:55.690 — 01:27:58.290 · Speaker 2
And some pretty hostile stuff going Gareth Cliff. Yeah.
01:27:58.730 — 01:28:18.090 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So that was kind of like yeah. You know, kind of, um, I think I saw it was a week or two ago. Arena, who started Cliff central with Gareth, posted, I think it was 15, 14 or 15 years ago when they started it. Oh, and there was a handful of people that understood what this thing was like.
01:28:18.130 — 01:28:19.210 · Speaker 5
I actually.
01:28:19.210 — 01:28:21.890 · Speaker 3
Remember the departure from the radio.
01:28:21.890 — 01:28:22.450 · Speaker 5
Station.
01:28:22.930 — 01:28:37.410 · Speaker 3
From five FM and starting this thing. And I remember going through this pain of having to, like, download an app or something and just thinking at the time, this is insane. No, this is too difficult. No one’s going.
01:28:37.410 — 01:28:37.530 · Speaker 5
To.
01:28:37.650 — 01:28:39.930 · Speaker 2
Do this and that. He managed to do that.
01:28:40.130 — 01:28:44.890 · Speaker 3
But I mean, if you think about it now, he was really way ahead of all of us.
01:28:44.930 — 01:29:03.010 · Speaker 1
Yeah, so far ahead. And he gave a lot of really good people a break in the game and justified it for a lot of people. And he had his tactics for doing it. He wasn’t the most popular person, but he knows what he’s doing. He’s super bright. He knew that how to get attention. You know, you go from
01:29:04.210 — 01:29:17.970 · Speaker 1
that day, you know, those days the kind of progression was radio into podcasts. I think nowadays more influence into podcasts, right. And to be a radio, you know, present on a breakfast show to turn on the microphone, and you’ve got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people.
01:29:18.010 — 01:29:18.290 · Speaker 5
To.
01:29:18.290 — 01:30:02.170 · Speaker 1
Make you turn your microphone. You don’t know who’s there. I mean, that’s the biggest leap of anything, never mind financial or career or anything. And so, yeah, a friend of mine started working there, and every time the opportunity came about, I was floating around the building. And then chance came to do a show, and then we did a sports show out of there, and then we’d fill in, we’d be on Gary’s show and it’s it’s actually not.
I think the format of being on that show, you didn’t worry too much about the live portion. And I do have a radio background, so live didn’t scare me, right? Um, but that I think because you kind of knew you could say anything and you actually ended up not saying anything wrong.
01:30:02.210 — 01:30:02.450 · Speaker 5
That’s.
01:30:02.450 — 01:30:08.450 · Speaker 2
Yeah, quite cool about being not on the radio, not on national radio. So if it does sort of there’s sort of.
01:30:08.970 — 01:30:10.330 · Speaker 5
A safety net. Yeah.
01:30:10.370 — 01:30:11.130 · Speaker 2
Or uncensored.
01:30:11.770 — 01:30:12.010 · Speaker 5
Yes.
01:30:12.010 — 01:30:18.800 · Speaker 3
Well you know, I think that’s it. Like you feel a little bit safer because it’s allowable on that, that show.
01:30:18.840 — 01:30:21.560 · Speaker 5
And you find you don’t because you don’t push it there. Yeah. Actually.
01:30:21.600 — 01:30:25.960 · Speaker 1
Because you’re allowed to. Yes. You don’t. So it’s a weird, weird dynamic.
01:30:26.000 — 01:30:26.240 · Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:30:26.280 — 01:30:44.720 · Speaker 3
Yeah I think and I’ve never been on love anything before. It’s a little bit like the feelings we had when we started this podcast. Initially we were rubbish, we were jittery and felt stilted. You might think we were still in that phase, I don’t.
01:30:44.720 — 01:30:45.880 · Speaker 5
Know, but I.
01:30:46.040 — 01:30:46.200 · Speaker 1
Have.
01:30:46.200 — 01:30:47.400 · Speaker 5
Some notes. Yeah,
01:30:49.120 — 01:30:50.240 · Speaker 5
I’m sure you do.
01:30:50.400 — 01:31:08.000 · Speaker 3
You know, we look back on those apps now and we’re like, okay, cool. We were getting getting into a bit of a rhythm here. This is looking a bit better. It feels more natural. So I’m sure that initially the feeling of terror must be there for for love. But, um, I’m sure you get used.
01:31:08.000 — 01:31:08.960 · Speaker 5
To it now.
01:31:09.000 — 01:31:12.920 · Speaker 3
And what about live podcasts? How does one even do that?
01:31:12.960 — 01:31:14.880 · Speaker 1
I don’t know why more people aren’t doing it.
01:31:14.920 — 01:31:16.760 · Speaker 5
It’s. It’s really great. Yeah.
01:31:16.840 — 01:31:27.160 · Speaker 1
Like I did go down the road of starting a business like this, but then I just realized podcasters don’t like to spend money, so that’s a huge that’s a huge problem. Um.
01:31:27.200 — 01:31:28.320 · Speaker 2
That’s cool for our business.
01:31:29.800 — 01:31:31.560 · Speaker 5
Yeah. That’s cool. Yeah, it’s.
01:31:31.560 — 01:31:41.080 · Speaker 1
It’s, um, the live podcast aspect, because this is the thing you talk to about a brand. They go, how many people listen to my podcast and they say, and you can go, well.
01:31:41.120 — 01:31:41.800 · Speaker 5
Zero.
01:31:41.960 — 01:32:34.190 · Speaker 1
Okay. Initially 200. And they go, what does 200 mean? I said, imagine 200 people in a room. Yes. Right. That’s 200. Okay. That now means something. Right. And I think the opportunity to monetize, especially for a podcast or for creator, let alone a brand, I think a brand for both of them, it actually works the same to put 200 people in a room as you as a podcaster.
It’s not a Patreon. It’s not subscribing to something. That’s whatever. Turn off people can come into a room, engage with me, interact with me, maybe buy something I’m trying to sell, but get to understand who I am. And I think it’s such a great touchpoint. I also think it’s good for you as a creator to see your people right then you’ve got to ask.
So many podcasters are like super introverted, so like, would they even want to be in that scenario? But I think it’s like really this thing of podcasts, like what it’s become and what it is.
01:32:34.230 — 01:32:34.670 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:32:34.950 — 01:32:41.790 · Speaker 1
We’ve kind of started that. I think it’s everything and I think it’s a really good. Podcasters are the ones that understand that are not one thing.
01:32:41.830 — 01:32:43.110 · Speaker 3
Yes, that there’s some gray.
01:32:43.110 — 01:32:45.270 · Speaker 5
Around that it could look like this today.
01:32:45.750 — 01:33:38.030 · Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think that’s what it is. And I think that’s the thing people keep going. Oh, how do I grow my show? How do I grow my show? You know how most radio stations grow when they start outside broadcasts? They they go wherever there is something and they put the show and people go, oh, who are you?
There’s a bumper sticker, here’s a cap. And it’s like, it’s the same logic, right? Go where people are. Let them see. I got a one of the guys on the guild, the celeb savant. He. He’s phenomenal. His work rate is outrageous. He started way before us on on on our music show. And he’s way ahead of us in the amount of episodes.
And we got a lot of episodes. But he will interview anybody and go to the opening of everything. But you know how he promotes his podcast. He’s got a t shirt with a QR code on it, and he goes to all these events, celeb events and open and scan.
01:33:38.230 — 01:33:39.030 · Speaker 5
My t shirt.
01:33:39.110 — 01:33:43.110 · Speaker 1
And it’s like he’s a frightened of technology.
01:33:43.150 — 01:33:44.270 · Speaker 3
Pretty low fi, right?
01:33:44.310 — 01:33:58.990 · Speaker 1
But it’s such a simple way. So I think it’s like that. I think it’s about live stuff. Get in front of people. Um, and they can interact with you and they can see you and they can vibe with you. And and it’s not a new trick. It’s like radio stations have done it for years. So let’s take that and use it.
01:33:59.030 — 01:33:59.390 · Speaker 5
Mm.
01:33:59.430 — 01:34:24.750 · Speaker 3
I think it is a challenge for especially the solo podcaster. Yeah. Who is an introverted person and isn’t into marketing themselves. Self-promotion. I mean, for a lot of us, feels weird and uncomfortable. Um, so, you know, that’s a massive hurdle for for those kinds of individuals to overcome that you actually do need to promote yourself in order to grow your show.
01:34:24.790 — 01:34:25.070 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:34:25.110 — 01:34:25.870 · Speaker 5
And otherwise.
01:34:25.870 — 01:34:26.629 · Speaker 3
It’s a very, very.
01:34:26.629 — 01:34:26.870 · Speaker 5
Slow.
01:34:26.909 — 01:34:30.870 · Speaker 1
I’m going to say it on here because now it’s not committed to tape. I might ask you to cut this out, but.
01:34:30.870 — 01:34:31.550 · Speaker 5
That’s why.
01:34:31.710 — 01:35:13.580 · Speaker 1
The guild we want to do the podcast. Right. So we’re doing an essay podcast towards the end of this year. Um, we’re doing essay Pod Fest for this. So basically we’re going to set up the infrastructure. We’ll get the place. The mics are there, the cameras are there, the infrastructure is there. The people will be there.
Come do your show. So we’ll have a slot and we’ve got a running order and you’ll shows an hour. Everyone will be allocated over a couple of days and we’ll do that. So there’s comfort in numbers, there’s safety in numbers. The tech is there, the support is there. So like kind of once we get the awards out the way, that’s the next thing we want to do and the self-promotion thing.
That’s why the Americans are kings of podcasting. Yes, because they promote themselves, right? Yeah, it’s tacky, but look where they are.
01:35:13.620 — 01:35:16.260 · Speaker 2
They’re not afraid of tooting their own horns. Yeah.
01:35:16.300 — 01:35:22.620 · Speaker 1
And you got to. Oh, you’ve got to be such. I mean, my LinkedIn persona. I hate that guy. He’s such a douchebag.
01:35:22.660 — 01:35:23.380 · Speaker 2
I’m going to go.
01:35:24.060 — 01:35:40.180 · Speaker 1
Oh, no, he’s he’s the worst. He must be the one coming tomorrow. Oh, what a douche this guy’s. But it means something to some people. I had a client that says, oh, I saw your post. I didn’t realize you did that. And I was like, oh, did I? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. The douche. The LinkedIn douche. He did that.
Yeah.
01:35:40.220 — 01:36:36.260 · Speaker 3
So there was something on LinkedIn the other day that you posted that was quite divisive. Um, you said here there’s a moment that always determines the outcome. The suggested hosts slide. That’s where most branded podcast podcasts start to fall apart. And it was actually so interesting to me that, you know, the the angle of looking for someone else to represent my brand doesn’t make sense to me at all.
Yeah, I understand why. You know, because there’s the safety of a professional person being there and some continuity. You know what if what if we build this around a person in our business who then leaves? What then? Um, but I think that this is an extremely valid point. And I’m guessing people argue. You argue with you on this point.
01:36:36.300 — 01:38:13.450 · Speaker 1
You do. And you guys will get this. They go, well, who’s going to host this podcast? And then you start scrambling. They want an influencer. They want a name. They want a radio presenter or whatever. And it goes, okay, if that’s all you have to hang your hat on, like then you shouldn’t be doing this or we should really rethink it.
I think the only thing worse really is like, actually, maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea having people from the company hosted. But so if if you’re if you’re doing if you need a brand to host your branded podcast and we’re talking about authenticity, and then that dude’s like, okay, I’ll host this podcast for XYZ brand.
And then now I’m on this news channel here, and then I’m now on this ad for that. Where’s the authenticity? Right. And the reality is, I work with a lot of the guys. And the guys are the world’s best professionals, but they’re professionals. Yes. They’ll arrive, they’re prepped, they do it. Their invoice.
Right? Yeah, that’s the relationship. It’s transactional. And then they put I do podcasts as well as part of their like kind of call sheet. Right. Whether their podcast fails or not. Did you pay me? Fine. They’ll be polite. They’ll be the best. And and I think I carried on in that post, I did it and I’ll name it.
We were doing a podcast for Cipla and we started over with Ryan O’Connor was the host. Now Ryan O’Connor, radio presenter, very well known in Cape Town, very popular, very professional. But he was so invested in what they did right. Really got it. Understood the brands. He had a relationship with the business, but you really bought into the podcast.
Want to know the technical side? Like we know him and we’re kind of like. And. That podcast with him. I think they recently changed hosts, but it lasted so long because he cared, because.
01:38:13.450 — 01:38:13.530 · Speaker 2
He.
01:38:13.530 — 01:38:14.330 · Speaker 3
Was invested.
01:38:14.370 — 01:38:14.610 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:38:14.650 — 01:38:27.010 · Speaker 1
That’s it. He cared. He went over and above like we’d give him the questions, but he knew the business so well. He had shift and move and he loved it. He loved it. And that was it. Lost it. The proof, wasn’t it? It lost it.
01:38:27.250 — 01:38:30.250 · Speaker 2
It was just like a session musician. Exactly. I had to come in.
01:38:30.290 — 01:38:31.010 · Speaker 1
Exactly.
01:38:31.050 — 01:38:54.410 · Speaker 2
Yeah. No, that’s. That’s awesome. Then we were speaking. We had. I can’t remember who it was, but they were saying that the massive guests that they get when they get, like, a really high profile guest, it doesn’t actually increase their, their, their views. Oh, like, didn’t seem to really add any massive value.
I thought, I don’t know if that was just her experience. No. But I guess we’ve also had bigger guests. Like.
01:38:54.810 — 01:38:55.170 · Speaker 3
You know what?
01:38:55.170 — 01:38:56.250 · Speaker 2
I think much of a difference.
01:38:56.250 — 01:39:01.410 · Speaker 3
Sometimes for me this is a concern is that we shouldn’t be bringing in guests to get more views.
01:39:02.370 — 01:39:04.330 · Speaker 2
Or just guess because they are big.
01:39:04.370 — 01:39:22.450 · Speaker 3
Precisely. I think it’s about making the selection of the guests because you genuinely interested in their take on a particular topic, or you want to understand how they built something amazing because, you know your listeners are going to be hanging on every word. You know, that’s the right guest.
01:39:22.490 — 01:39:26.890 · Speaker 2
I mean, what you just described as the ultimate, a big name who is invested.
01:39:26.930 — 01:39:27.570 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:39:27.610 — 01:39:40.770 · Speaker 1
If if you guys had to get a guest for a podcast. Right. Big name. Huge. They’re going to do gangbusters on your numbers because of their name, right? They’ve agreed to promote. They’ve agreed to post whatever, but they suck. Mhm. Would you drop the episode?
01:39:42.210 — 01:39:44.610 · Speaker 3
Um probably not.
01:39:46.170 — 01:39:47.090 · Speaker 3
I mean we haven’t.
01:39:47.290 — 01:39:51.490 · Speaker 2
We haven’t had to deal with it yet. But when it happens, if and when it happens.
01:39:51.530 — 01:40:05.480 · Speaker 1
That’s a conundrum right. Because you go well it’s just one. But again goes like okay I might offend him. Her? Yes. Will I ever get anybody in their stable again? Yes. Will they badmouth me? Probably not, because they probably don’t care.
01:40:05.640 — 01:40:08.520 · Speaker 3
And maybe also objectively realized that it sucks.
01:40:09.440 — 01:40:17.680 · Speaker 1
But your audience will go, oh, that sucks. And it goes like, who’s more important? Yeah. Like that’s that’s a yeah. That’s the curse of the creator. That makes for the podcast.
01:40:17.720 — 01:40:22.240 · Speaker 2
That was another article I read. I really should like right down here. She writes these articles, which sounds like.
01:40:22.240 — 01:40:22.560 · Speaker 1
Blame it.
01:40:22.560 — 01:40:24.120 · Speaker 2
For yourself coming up with stuff, you know.
01:40:25.200 — 01:40:44.720 · Speaker 2
Yeah. No, but they were saying that, um, their podcast is done extremely well and gets consistent views because they are very harsh with what they actually put out. Yeah. So like, even if they’ve got a big, a big a big star or whatever on the show, that’s why I kind of claim this is mine, because I haven’t had any big stars on the show, but.
Well, I.
01:40:45.160 — 01:40:50.560 · Speaker 1
Know. Well, this is one of the that’s obviously the question. If they got sucked, would you drop the episode? You may face that question.
01:40:50.600 — 01:41:07.320 · Speaker 2
No, no. So what I was saying, yeah, they were just saying that like they’ve had to make really hard decisions sometimes to cut people just because that person didn’t fit with the vibe or the interview seems stilted or just sort of, they kind of lost a bit of credibility. They made those big decisions and it’s paid off in the long run.
01:41:07.400 — 01:41:26.760 · Speaker 3
I also feel like as a listener, I can tell when I’m listening to one of the regular podcasts that I listen to, and they’re interviewing someone where the vibe is off. Yeah. Like, I can just, I like I’m like this, this sucks. And I move on to the next one. I don’t think to myself, they should have cut this. I just move on to the next one.
01:41:26.800 — 01:42:04.880 · Speaker 1
You know, it’s another funny thing that we experienced. So, um, I have a music podcast. We do 80s, 80s music and nostalgia. And we did do interviews for a while and for the right reason. We will do an interview. But here’s the thing. Right. So you get the person for an interview. They’re normally legacy artists.
I call them legacy artists or old farts. Um, they did like your grandma to remember. Yeah. And, uh, so you’re doing the prep, you read up on them, and you go watch some other interviews that they’ve done. True as God, no matter what you ask them that answer exactly the same way. And every interview of this is identical.
And you’re going.
01:42:05.720 — 01:42:08.080 · Speaker 3
That’s because they’ve been doing it since the 80s, you see.
01:42:08.120 — 01:42:08.520 · Speaker 1
That’s it.
01:42:08.560 — 01:42:09.400 · Speaker 3
They’re just doing.
01:42:09.600 — 01:42:09.800 · Speaker 1
Their.
01:42:09.800 — 01:42:14.160 · Speaker 6
Professional down time, and they’re polite and they sweet. And there’s a few of those I’ve dropped because I’m like.
01:42:14.560 — 01:42:23.040 · Speaker 1
Yeah, no, like it’s not our vibe. Like yeah straight away you can you’re it’s not. That’s not us. Yes. And like no harm no foul. Don’t ever know.
01:42:23.080 — 01:43:04.110 · Speaker 3
When it’s the same as your your sports podcast that you were talking about earlier. Like why change your own style to suit the algorithm or to get more clicks? Because you’re then going to have to stick to that. You’re trying to square peg round hole scenario. It’s terrible. There’s no way you’re going to be able to sustain that.
And I think that the the listener to a podcast that had a lot of episodes and has a really good style and, you know, you’ve built a relationship subconsciously with that podcast. Yeah, you can hear when an episode it’s just a bit weird, but off.
01:43:04.150 — 01:43:05.550 · Speaker 1
Straight away. Yeah. Straight away.
01:43:05.590 — 01:43:06.990 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Mhm.
01:43:07.950 — 01:43:20.990 · Speaker 1
And it’s weird what people do. So like I mean we’ve been audio all the time. Right. Yeah. 1 or 2 we’ve dropped as a video but but audio all the time. And it’s so weird when you build that thing it goes to that radio thing. Like when they meet me, they go, oh, I don’t think you look like that. You.
01:43:23.350 — 01:43:24.030 · Speaker 7
Know, it’s like.
01:43:25.390 — 01:43:33.310 · Speaker 1
Okay. I hope they think. They think I’m younger than. Maybe they expect it. Um, but, um, it’s crazy because they’ve got.
01:43:33.310 — 01:43:33.470 · Speaker 6
This.
01:43:33.470 — 01:43:34.990 · Speaker 1
Perception of you. And then.
01:43:34.990 — 01:43:36.070 · Speaker 6
When they, it’s like.
01:43:36.110 — 01:44:02.190 · Speaker 1
Wow. And the perception is what you wanted. Yeah. Right. Yes. And, um, it’s actually weird. It’s crazy. And that’s just what people that’s just the relationship they have with you. Especially because that show in particular is nostalgia. So we talk about things that really trigger like core memories, right?
Like nostalgia crack type of stuff. And because you’re triggering that memory, there’s an affinity to us because we’re talking it. Yes. And so you don’t want to like, let that down. You know, you’re kind of.
01:44:02.230 — 01:44:04.670 · Speaker 3
Like, you’ve got to be gentle with the topic.
01:44:04.750 — 01:44:24.070 · Speaker 1
That’s it, because you’re dealing with something that we’ve often people when it was a safer, more happy, a different time for them. And like if you come across as inauthentic, like they this is so deep, I promise you, we never think this deep about our show. Like our main thing is like is live a hexi, the puppet still deep in the bowels of the SABC.
01:44:24.110 — 01:44:24.870 · Speaker 3
Is it somewhere?
01:44:24.910 — 01:44:25.830 · Speaker 1
Okay, imagine it.
01:44:25.830 — 01:44:26.510 · Speaker 2
Is so.
01:44:27.110 — 01:44:27.550 · Speaker 1
Nightmare.
01:44:27.670 — 01:44:30.150 · Speaker 2
Why the 80s? You could have been very old in the 80s.
01:44:30.150 — 01:44:32.470 · Speaker 1
I was born in 1980. Yeah.
01:44:32.470 — 01:44:33.630 · Speaker 2
So like the same age?
01:44:33.670 — 01:44:37.110 · Speaker 1
Yeah. It’s the like the cartoons, like, you know, it’s.
01:44:37.110 — 01:44:37.910 · Speaker 3
Like it’s like leave a.
01:44:38.670 — 01:44:44.030 · Speaker 1
Like today. I was like, just going through, like, they’re releasing all the new He-Man action figures for the new movie. I’m like.
01:44:44.070 — 01:44:45.030 · Speaker 3
Are you guys going to be best.
01:44:45.030 — 01:44:49.230 · Speaker 1
Friends? So I’m so they got the power Sword, the lighter password.
01:44:49.270 — 01:44:51.630 · Speaker 3
I should see this guy’s study.
01:44:53.510 — 01:44:58.750 · Speaker 2
I’ve got a I’ve got a real thing for for Ninja turtles suck, dude. Yeah.
01:44:58.790 — 01:44:59.390 · Speaker 1
How many?
01:44:59.430 — 01:45:00.510 · Speaker 3
How many should I leave?
01:45:00.550 — 01:45:04.350 · Speaker 2
I have, like, every, like, kind of phase.
01:45:04.390 — 01:45:05.630 · Speaker 1
And do you have to get all for.
01:45:05.670 — 01:45:07.950 · Speaker 2
Yes. That’s one of the main villains.
01:45:07.990 — 01:45:08.750 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Do you see.
01:45:08.790 — 01:45:10.790 · Speaker 2
And and the coolest vehicles.
01:45:10.830 — 01:45:11.190 · Speaker 1
You see.
01:45:11.390 — 01:45:14.990 · Speaker 2
The big ones are the small ones. See, I’ve got ThunderCats.
01:45:15.030 — 01:45:20.190 · Speaker 1
I see ThunderCats, yeah. There you go. Master of the universe. I’m always just He-Man and skeletal. That’s what I’m about.
01:45:20.230 — 01:45:20.510 · Speaker 2
Yes.
01:45:20.510 — 01:45:30.190 · Speaker 1
Yeah, but you see what you’ve done? You just unlocked the memory. And that’s why the 80s, right? Yeah, yeah. And everybody’s got that. So. And whether it be sweets or liver or or magma.
01:45:30.190 — 01:45:32.590 · Speaker 3
How do you decide what to talk about?
01:45:32.630 — 01:45:37.149 · Speaker 1
You know I tell you. So what do we do is that it’s not
01:45:38.230 — 01:45:49.660 · Speaker 1
the algorithm gives us 80 stuff to find. Right. And it’s kind of like Stranger Things. Where’s the biggest blessing? Because it revived this thing of like kids watching Stranger Things and in asking their parents, why is that relevant?
01:45:50.220 — 01:45:50.860 · Speaker 3
What is that.
01:45:50.860 — 01:45:51.260 · Speaker 1
Even.
01:45:51.500 — 01:45:51.820 · Speaker 3
Here?
01:45:51.980 — 01:46:16.660 · Speaker 1
And that kind of. So we kind of like our frame, our show like that, and we go look for all the old farts. And what are they doing? And how embarrassing are they? Because they’re all trying to stay relevant. And it’s funny, you know, and then so a lot of the show is that. So we find stuff we’ve got like our tropes, certain people we keep going back to and we got crushes and we talk about the hazelnut and satanic panic and, you know, so all things like that, it triggers.
It works.
01:46:16.700 — 01:46:18.700 · Speaker 2
It works. Pedro, the music man.
01:46:18.940 — 01:46:24.740 · Speaker 1
We try to find him. We got the buddy beats guy. Remember buddy beats? Yeah, we found him. So we got him on the show.
01:46:24.860 — 01:46:26.820 · Speaker 2
Uncle Bill from Pumpkin Patch.
01:46:27.220 — 01:46:31.340 · Speaker 1
Uncle Freckles and Speckles. We want to find that puppet as well. You may not.
01:46:31.820 — 01:46:33.580 · Speaker 3
Exist. Oh, no. Gross.
01:46:34.340 — 01:46:39.740 · Speaker 7
It’s like, all matted, like in the bowels of the SABC. Like rotten, smelly, weird.
01:46:39.740 — 01:46:41.340 · Speaker 2
He just made strange noises.
01:46:41.380 — 01:46:42.420 · Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly.
01:46:42.460 — 01:46:43.140 · Speaker 2
Very odd.
01:46:43.180 — 01:46:45.380 · Speaker 1
And that’s that show. It’s like it.
01:46:45.380 — 01:46:48.460 · Speaker 2
Works. Actually, now we’re talking about it. I’m, like, fully invested.
01:46:48.500 — 01:47:01.860 · Speaker 1
Yeah. There you go. There you go. And it’s it’s all ages, so it’s pretty good. We’ve got people all around the world especially. We found a lot of expats because, um, they miss things from South Africa. Yeah, they miss it. So like, a lot of them. Listen. Yeah.
01:47:02.180 — 01:47:03.420 · Speaker 3
Cigarettes, sweets.
01:47:03.460 — 01:47:05.540 · Speaker 1
There you go. The chocolate ones or the
01:47:06.620 — 01:47:07.300 · Speaker 1
white ones?
01:47:07.300 — 01:47:12.140 · Speaker 3
Those candy ones. You would suck them until they came to a really sharp point and you could smack your sister with it.
01:47:12.260 — 01:47:16.060 · Speaker 1
Yeah. See you. That’s terrible. Smoking is dangerous.
01:47:16.260 — 01:47:16.420 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:47:17.700 — 01:47:26.420 · Speaker 1
Well, look, we’re walking around and we’re drinking like a little. There’s chocolates with liqueur in there. Yeah, like hanging out the Playboy mansion. His nine year old’s like, what is going on? It’s disgusting.
01:47:26.460 — 01:47:28.140 · Speaker 3
We were our parents at.
01:47:28.140 — 01:47:29.020 · Speaker 1
The Playboy mansion.
01:47:29.740 — 01:47:30.660 · Speaker 2
In the grotto.
01:47:30.860 — 01:47:32.900 · Speaker 1
We’re, like, wearing white loafers.
01:47:32.940 — 01:47:34.980 · Speaker 3
That’s not helicopter ING like.
01:47:34.980 — 01:47:43.060 · Speaker 1
No. Today the helicopter ring had a very different yeah thing in that connotation. Yeah, that’s a fun reference.
01:47:43.100 — 01:47:55.970 · Speaker 3
Goodness. Okay. I want to quickly talk about, um, the podcast awards. Yeah. How does that work? Someone is keen to enter or participate? Yeah. Give us the rundown.
01:47:56.010 — 01:48:40.010 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s our second one we did two years ago. We took a break. The main reason we took a break was because we felt if we ran year on year, there wouldn’t be new content. And our gut feeling was right, because the amount of new shows that have appeared from our first awards is exponentially larger. So we made the right decision.
Um, and also, it’s given us this chance to get our heads around while do we incorporate video, because our first year was like, you can’t submit video, we’re only going to judge you on audio or on your change your criteria so it’s free to enter. I’m actually not sure we’re debating that right. If it’s not free it’s going to be very low.
Low barrier to entry. Um, and yeah, I think we open up in.
01:48:40.330 — 01:48:40.930 · Speaker 2
A couple of years.
01:48:41.530 — 01:48:48.170 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Uh, well, open up. Any podcaster who’s registered to the podcaster guild can enter.
01:48:48.210 — 01:48:49.410 · Speaker 3
You need to be a member.
01:48:49.770 — 01:49:39.370 · Speaker 1
Which you. That is free and that is free. You know what we’re debating about? The entry fee is kind of going like. It’s like we’ve never been we don’t want to limit entry, but we also want to award our judges. It’s a lot of work. And to be fair, like, I judge a lot of stuff. And sometimes you kind of like you do just cheat a little bit because you can do it in the first like minutes, what it is, and you kind of want to make it worth people’s the judge as well.
So even that we might change the format of entering like you can’t enter your whole show. Give us clips of something. So that’s what we’re debating on like the actual final format. But yes, it’s, uh, podcast Awards second running. Um, it was big the first year. We think it’s going to get bigger. Just the amount of podcasts behind it.
We got nice partnerships coming in from like big names to get involved. And it’s just a great people like winning awards, right?
01:49:39.410 — 01:49:40.730 · Speaker 3
Yeah, I think it’s great.
01:49:40.770 — 01:49:43.410 · Speaker 1
Every person. That one put the little badge on and.
01:49:43.610 — 01:49:49.250 · Speaker 3
All the effort that you put into your show. If someone can acknowledge it, even if you don’t win, I think that’s great.
01:49:49.290 — 01:50:09.890 · Speaker 1
And it’s peers. It’s peers. And what we did in year one, all our judges are the best podcasters in the country, um, independent podcasters. And what we did year one, everybody could get the judging card and the feedback if they wanted it. So like if you really wanted to know and it was came from a good place to go, like, if you want to win.
Yes.
01:50:09.930 — 01:50:11.370 · Speaker 3
Here’s how you can improve.
01:50:11.410 — 01:50:27.250 · Speaker 1
If you want to go from bronze to silver, here’s how you do it. And that’s that’s what we’re about in the guild, right? We’re about like like, how do we take you from curious to a hobbyist hobbyist to pro pro to wizard, whatever. And like that’s why we’re going to do it.
01:50:27.290 — 01:50:30.890 · Speaker 3
Lovely. And can we win in a category okay.
01:50:30.930 — 01:50:43.200 · Speaker 1
We’re doing categories right now. And again this is the thing like uh best sports audio podcast, best sports video because well, we don’t know what that’s kind of like. Ah. Where are we with this? Um, but yes, it’s categories.
01:50:43.240 — 01:50:47.720 · Speaker 2
And you have to start. I’m sure you have already. Like, what is a podcast? Yeah. Qualifiers.
01:50:47.760 — 01:50:57.880 · Speaker 1
Yeah. And that definition. But it’s like we’re going to be pretty broad because we’re even like, well, if somebody goes live on TikTok for an hour and follows the format. Yes. Is that a podcast?
01:50:58.680 — 01:50:59.640 · Speaker 2
So I don’t know.
01:50:59.680 — 01:51:02.080 · Speaker 1
Yeah, neither do we. So, uh.
01:51:02.280 — 01:51:03.240 · Speaker 3
So good luck with that.
01:51:03.280 — 01:51:13.760 · Speaker 1
Yes. That’s it. But it’ll be great. It’ll be fair. We might actually just go, like, let’s condense it all down. I mean, by the time you use this, you’ll know, because it’s tricky. It’s like in two years, it’s changed so much. Yeah. It’s like. Yeah.
01:51:13.760 — 01:51:18.880 · Speaker 3
What do we do? Do you think there’s any underrepresented categories in our in our countries.
01:51:18.920 — 01:51:29.760 · Speaker 1
South African languages, local languages. 100% that that is it. Like people always go, oh, what’s the niche? Should I do a knitting a coastal knitting podcast? Yes.
01:51:29.800 — 01:51:31.080 · Speaker 3
Okay, I’ll be on that.
01:51:31.280 — 01:51:42.360 · Speaker 1
Okay. Right. So that’s a niche. But also go and see Zulu Cricket podcast. Why not? You know, it’s like a pretty big sport in the biggest language. Yeah, that’s a niche and nobody’s doing it.
01:51:42.400 — 01:51:45.680 · Speaker 2
There’s probably a bigger audience for that than for the knitting one. Yeah.
01:51:46.120 — 01:51:47.480 · Speaker 8
You think, oh, but.
01:51:48.040 — 01:51:51.520 · Speaker 1
The knitting audience will be a very sharp audience. That’s really good. Yeah.
01:51:52.040 — 01:51:53.280 · Speaker 3
And in fact.
01:51:53.320 — 01:51:54.160 · Speaker 8
Oh, well, that.
01:51:54.720 — 01:51:56.600 · Speaker 1
It has to be video so you can show off your knits.
01:51:56.760 — 01:51:57.880 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Show up your nuts.
01:51:57.920 — 01:51:58.160 · Speaker 8
Yeah.
01:51:59.000 — 01:52:05.320 · Speaker 1
And that’s an underrepresentation because we do have huge diversity. Yeah. Huge diversity but not in language.
01:52:05.360 — 01:52:07.440 · Speaker 2
And yeah that’s come up a few times now.
01:52:07.480 — 01:52:11.640 · Speaker 1
You know and and douchebag Paolo on LinkedIn. He was talking about how he.
01:52:11.840 — 01:52:12.880 · Speaker 2
Talked some smack on.
01:52:12.880 — 01:52:15.840 · Speaker 1
This. Yeah, yeah. Just down. Yeah. Thumbs down.
01:52:15.840 — 01:52:16.160 · Speaker 8
On it.
01:52:16.680 — 01:52:33.240 · Speaker 1
Um, new York festivals. I was lucky enough to. I’m lucky enough to be on the panel and judging for that. And the best podcasts, the ones that, like, really strike me and you can hear it are the Latin American or the the Asian language icon. They give you subtitles.
01:52:33.360 — 01:52:34.640 · Speaker 3
You know what I’m saying? Yeah.
01:52:34.920 — 01:53:09.440 · Speaker 1
But you can hear it, though. You can just you’re there’s a depth. There’s a realness in the voice that the English like because most of the Americans, they’re all there’s like these like whiny little millennial like, you know, you know, douchebags like, I don’t know, like LinkedIn. But there’s something real and raw about the local language is about foreign language.
And I just think there’s more and more coming in South Africa, but not enough. And I think that’s the breakthrough. That’s our moment. If we want to become this serious podcast contender, um, do it in your own language and do it in more languages. And there’s going to be AI tools and tricks that are going to turn our podcasts into different languages.
01:53:09.480 — 01:53:21.280 · Speaker 3
You know, that is something that I think is going to be super useful in the AI space is the, the, the access to content that you wouldn’t normally have because it’s not in your language. Yeah. And so I think that’s a.
01:53:21.280 — 01:53:24.440 · Speaker 2
Major I believe you can have there’s things that.
01:53:24.560 — 01:54:07.510 · Speaker 1
But there’s weird things. Right. So so we we work a lot with the African language radio stations. And when you translate something we found out like in the concept of Skincare. There’s no such thing as moisture in skincare. In isiZulu, it’s wet. Okay. Right. So now you have to find a compromise for the word.
And it’s like. But sometimes even that’s like the ah, translation. It doesn’t get that thing right. That’s like the way it just doesn’t have that thing. And I think that’s the beauty of our languages. They got something you can’t a machine can’t capture. Yeah. I think if we do that in podcasts, like, I mean, the guys are falling over themselves to do video in this.
Don’t do. Just do it in your own language. Like, that’s that’s that’s the silver bullet.
01:54:07.550 — 01:54:07.870 · Speaker 8
That’s the.
01:54:07.870 — 01:54:08.750 · Speaker 1
Gap. Yeah.
01:54:08.910 — 01:54:13.030 · Speaker 2
And the awards. There’s an actual awards. Not like a it’s virtual.
01:54:13.030 — 01:54:55.870 · Speaker 1
It’s virtual for now. We don’t have that much funding. We would love to do a show. We’d love to do a show and have an open bar. And you’d meet Jonathan in his lounge shirts and, um. But it is virtual. We do it. It’s super polished. We, uh, Diego, who is also one of the directors, he’s got a fantastic, um, post-production facility, so it looks really sharp.
It’ll look great. So it’ll be online. We’ll host watching parties. Maybe you guys can host the Durban one with all the podcasters and the nominees. And anybody can just get together and watch as a as a group as you watch it. Yeah. And that’ll be the aim for the third one to be an in-person event. But yeah that’s that’s the aim.
Polish is good. You get a little button that you can put on your your pop.
01:54:55.990 — 01:54:57.870 · Speaker 3
Well we’ll be entering for sure.
01:54:57.910 — 01:55:03.190 · Speaker 1
Definitely. Definitely. I’ll abstain from judging because I’m going to be super biased because you’ve been so nice to.
01:55:03.190 — 01:55:06.310 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. We’ll probably enter this in fact.
01:55:06.510 — 01:55:13.110 · Speaker 8
Oh no no you’re done. We’re ready. This is the one we got that can do we drop the case? Yeah yeah yeah.
01:55:14.110 — 01:55:16.630 · Speaker 2
Well maybe drop this one because of the one host.
01:55:16.750 — 01:55:17.790 · Speaker 3
Sure. Yeah.
01:55:18.030 — 01:55:19.110 · Speaker 8
You know.
01:55:19.750 — 01:55:20.550 · Speaker 3
That’s fine.
01:55:20.630 — 01:55:22.150 · Speaker 2
Cool. It’s speed.
01:55:22.150 — 01:55:25.270 · Speaker 8
Read on that. Oh that’s nice. I’ll just.
01:55:25.590 — 01:55:27.230 · Speaker 1
It’s like Mommy and Daddy are fighting at the.
01:55:27.230 — 01:55:30.110 · Speaker 8
Table just eating my beard. Okay. That’s classic.
01:55:31.510 — 01:55:33.180 · Speaker 2
It’s been really, really cool.
01:55:33.460 — 01:55:33.820 · Speaker 8
Thank you.
01:55:34.100 — 01:55:35.020 · Speaker 2
Thank you. Thanks for coming.
01:55:35.060 — 01:55:35.860 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you for your time.
01:55:36.260 — 01:55:38.860 · Speaker 2
As to creatives, it’s been good to chat.
01:55:38.900 — 01:56:17.700 · Speaker 1
It’s what you guys are doing is amazing, though. And keep it up. And I see you’re, like, quite new into it. Yeah. Your message that you want to do I think like I think you got like a business imperative. But I think just what you’re doing and the information you’re putting out there because the problem is anybody wanting to get into podcasting previously only had American content, now has ChatGPT or AI giving you from American content.
So to give something like this for any level of podcast I’ve seen, like all your different topics is so good and I’m really glad that guys like you are part of the guild and we’re going to hit you up to do more. I’m telling you now, but this has been great. Like it really means a lot for that, that you’d like to talk to me.
So thank you so much.
01:56:17.740 — 01:56:18.220 · Speaker 2
Cool. Thanks.
01:56:18.300 — 01:56:19.380 · Speaker 3
Thank you for giving us your time.
01:56:19.380 — 01:56:19.980 · Speaker 8
Thank you.
01:56:20.620 — 01:56:27.260 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Let’s check out the website for the South African Podcasters Guild. There’s a huge wealth of information and podcast there that you can enjoy.
