Episode 54 Interview with the podcast “SA Food Stories” by Nicci Robertson.txt
English (US)
01:00:00.440 — 01:00:20.800 · Speaker 1
What is your process for identifying the right sponsor and and reaching out and closing that? And the podcast is not an interview. It's a conversation. And there's a there's a distinction. Have you have you declined some guests after that first phone call and gone. Mhm. Most of the dietary advice, especially counting calories is absolute nonsense.
01:00:22.320 — 01:02:22.060 · Speaker 1
I'm so excited. We are joined today by Nicki Robertson, one of South Africa's leading voices in health and performance. You might recognize her as an author of two fantastic books and also the SA Food Stories podcast. Thank you for joining us today, Nikki. Hi, Jane. So nice to have you here on the podcast.
Thank you for coming and spending some time with us today. Thank you so much for inviting me. I have a bajillion questions, but I think I'm going to start very simply. How on earth did you get into having not one, but two podcasts? How did that happen? So it's a long story. I'm going to take you right back. Um, I started off life in a publishing family, so my dad owned a company that published calendars and did rights management for photography.
So I was always involved in the media industry. I worked for him, um, from a very young age. I left the family business, went to study in the States, went into the TV industry, um, and eventually became sort of my own ad agency. Okay. Back here and back here in SA and after a couple of years, after battling with weight and health for many, many years, I think it was probably burnout for being in the industry and not getting enough sleep and the stress that was involved with it.
Um, I'd been to many, many dietitians. I had been to doctors. I was trying to get to the bottom of what was called fibromyalgia, and, um, I had an eating problem. So I had a I had a binge eating problem. And this was a bit of this binge eating problem came from my mother. So my mother was a ballet dancer, so she had an adverse relationship with food while my dad's family were his family, he was a publisher, but his family were bakers.
So we had this push pull. There were there were a foodie family, but there was always this disconnect with my mum. Um, and I eventually just, like, hung up my advertising hat and went to study clinical nutrition. Um, and I became a nutritionist, and that was to get.
01:02:22.060 — 01:02:22.740 · Speaker 2
To the bottom of.
01:02:23.100 — 01:02:24.460 · Speaker 1
My personal health.
01:02:24.500 — 01:02:25.220 · Speaker 2
Issue concerns.
01:02:25.260 — 01:05:12.630 · Speaker 1
Yeah. And what I learned there, or what I learned studying nutrition and later on functional nutrition. And then, um, sports nutrition was that the diet industry was absolute ballocks. I think we all know that nowadays everything you see in the media, especially on social media, is it's junk. Um, it's all the salad product.
Most of the dietary advice, especially counting calories, is absolute nonsense. Um, almost everything that we we know to be true about what to do, how to eat, is nonsense. It's crazy. So, um, I was invited at work. So I think what happened was a client nominated me for an award on 702. I think it was a small business award.
Okay. And I found myself talking on radio about the business. So the business was a corporate health care business. I coached people individually in nutrition, and one of my clients called in and nominated us for a small business award. Got I think it was Bruce Whitfield who was doing the interview. We had three minutes on a on an afternoon, some random Thursday afternoon, and the elevator pitch landed.
It did. Something blew up. It blew up. It blew up. I got something like 50 people foam in the next ten minutes wanting to make appointments. And I thought, this is I've got to get on radio more. And for some reason, I got invited back to speak on radio. I've got a, um, a regular slot early on a Saturday morning on 702, we were talking nutrition and it was incredible.
It was. I just loved the format. I loved being on radio. I love answering rapid fire Questions. Does the whole studio vibe is just. I just hope it just clicked. Um, from there, I think somebody heard that show, asked me to do a couple of inserts for GlaxoSmithKline on espresso TV. Yes, that also blew up. It did incredibly well.
Loved the TV. Well, I'd been in TV before. I'd worked in production, but not on that other side of the camera. But it wasn't, um, it wasn't foreign. So it was something I was quite comfortable with, and I just, I loved the, the, the idea that it was going to change somebody's life. From there, I was asked to audition as a presenter on Real Health on this TV.
176 that's 11 years ago and didn't get the presenter position, but I got to be a regular slot or a regular nutritionist, a contributor. So I've done at least 200, 250 hours on Real health, 13 years on radio. So, you know, everyone thinks of me as the nutritionist, but my real passion and my background is media has always been the channel that I can get the message out there.
Um, wrote a book, two books, two books. So the first book was, um, and everyone says, how many times did you have to get rejected before you go to book published?
01:05:12.670 — 01:05:13.630 · Speaker 2
Then was it zero?
01:05:13.670 — 01:05:59.980 · Speaker 1
It was zero. Oh, no. It's unbelievable. So I wrote the book. It was, um, we were contracted by, I think it was Coventry. Okay. They said they wanted to publish it and it was in Covid. And they got back to me a couple of months later and said, look, I know we've got a contract, but we can't. We don't have the funding to do this.
I'm going to just to make it up to you, I'm going to put it on the desk of the lifestyle editor at Penguin Random House, and I'm like, okay, fine, that's all allowance. That's okay, that's okay. And she snapped it up. And it's been an unbelievable I think, I think of all the things I've done, that's the most incredible part of doing that was thrive.
Okay. So that was my first book. It was about breaking the diet rules, why the diet industry is bunk and how to lose weight and get healthy without killing yourself in the process.
01:06:00.180 — 01:06:03.060 · Speaker 2
And falling into all the traps. They've just been laid out so beautifully.
01:06:03.100 — 01:06:22.980 · Speaker 1
Yes, exactly. Without falling into the traps. Book did really, really well. Um, then they contracted the second book, mind, Body and Soul Food, which is mindful eating again, moving really far away from the diet and the deprivation mindset. So it's feeding your soul and your heart and your brain understanding how these things have to work together.
01:06:23.020 — 01:06:23.420 · Speaker 2
Right.
01:06:23.460 — 01:06:27.500 · Speaker 1
If you want to be healthy. And now we have just signed the third book.
01:06:27.540 — 01:06:30.740 · Speaker 2
Congratulations. So that one going to be called are you allowed to tell me?
01:06:30.780 — 01:06:51.340 · Speaker 1
Yeah. It's called growing healthy humans. So it is preconception to puberty. So it's hard to conceive healthily if you're battling how to have a healthy pregnancy and bring up healthy children. So it's a hell of a challenging book to write. Um, but it's out there. It's it's getting it's getting seen. It's going to get seen.
Amazing. Yeah.
01:06:51.380 — 01:06:54.730 · Speaker 2
What a fantastic story. Thank you. Kind of a whirlwind.
01:06:55.690 — 01:06:57.610 · Speaker 1
That's the way I like it. I have to say.
01:06:58.050 — 01:07:07.330 · Speaker 2
I think in our very first discussion, you were talking about some things that you wanted to do and some of the plans that were afoot. And I said to you, do you get any sleep?
01:07:07.490 — 01:07:07.770 · Speaker 1
Yes.
01:07:09.130 — 01:07:12.770 · Speaker 1
So if you don't sleep, you can't do any of this. You'll be very strict with that.
01:07:12.810 — 01:07:14.450 · Speaker 2
Very bad for you to not get enough sleep.
01:07:14.490 — 01:07:21.410 · Speaker 1
You will die if you don't get enough sleep. You can't function at a high level without being very protective over recovery. Yeah.
01:07:21.570 — 01:07:32.810 · Speaker 2
So the writing obviously also comes very naturally to you. Is that how the podcast happened? Were you writing lots of stories and those turned into small, bite sized things?
01:07:32.850 — 01:07:54.440 · Speaker 1
No. So what happened was the first podcast, the Reinvent Health podcast was something that happened because of Covid, because I was bored and there was nothing else to do. And because I understood how to edit audio. And I had a good mic, and I knew that we could probably do two record two channels on zoom, we'd be okay.
And because people, other people were bored. Most people that are contacted said.
01:07:54.440 — 01:07:55.920 · Speaker 2
Yes, I'm free.
01:07:55.960 — 01:08:44.159 · Speaker 1
It's great to get nothing else to do. And, um, I just believe in jumping in. You know, it's all, what if it sounds bad? You can edit that or delete it and start again. It doesn't really matter as long as you have fun doing it and you just try. Um, I figured out, how do you get it out there? I think it was Spotify for creators.
Okay, yes. I've put everything on there. Changed it since, obviously. Um, but I just loved talking to people, and it didn't matter if it wasn't perfect. Um, you know, we had to sit in under duvets and in cupboards to make sure the sound sounded okay. Uh, you know, the lengths you go to, but it was an incredibly rewarding experience, so I didn't try and get it sponsored until I got past 100 apps.
I didn't think there was any value until you'd had.
01:08:44.200 — 01:08:46.640 · Speaker 2
Until I had got a body of work there. Yeah, okay.
01:08:46.680 — 01:08:52.230 · Speaker 1
And I was hooked. So from there, everything else started springing up all over the place. Okay. Yeah.
01:08:52.230 — 01:08:57.310 · Speaker 2
Okay. So now you have essay food stories as well. Podcast number two.
01:08:57.390 — 01:09:32.630 · Speaker 1
Yes. So yeah. What happened there was about a year ago I was driving down the road and there was a guy on the side of the road with a big cardboard sign and it said, qualified chef can't find work. Need funding for food truck. And I thought I just my heart broke. I was like, how can it be that this young guy who's qualified can't find work in an industry?
That is, we would think there's a lot of jobs in that industry. It's either a lack of knowledge who doesn't know how to promote himself or some things. There's a disconnect here. Anyway, drove back ten minutes later, he was gone and I was like, well, that was quick. Obviously somebody found him and gave me some.
01:09:32.630 — 01:09:33.830 · Speaker 2
Money to pay for me.
01:09:34.470 — 01:10:48.220 · Speaker 1
And then I went to him and I thought, what can I do? I can create a platform. That's all I can really do is create a platform where I can invite really interesting people to talk about their journeys. And hopefully this reaches people like that and everybody else who is looking for just something. And you never know whose laugh, your touch.
And that's that's. I mean, for me, that's my driver. For everything I do is will this create value for the sponsor, will create value for the guest, and will it create a potentially life changing opportunity for the person that will possibly hear it listening? Yeah. And that that drives absolutely everything.
So I went along, spoke to a very good friend of mine who works at. She's actually head of marketing of Bird Food. And I said, Linds, I've got this idea. We have to make it happen. She said, of course we're going to make it happen. She said, just leave it with me. And she worked her magic. She went and found sponsors for the show.
We found our guests. We we just, you know, I think when the time is right and the intention is aligned, um, and you're very coherent with where you want to go with something, it works. It's always fine that if something is taking too long to manifest and it's too difficult, just don't go there with one.
01:10:48.340 — 01:10:51.970 · Speaker 2
You can put it on a shelf and come back to it. When the stars have aligned.
01:10:52.010 — 01:10:56.450 · Speaker 1
Yes, yes. But go with what's working and put your energy into that. Yes.
01:10:56.970 — 01:11:16.370 · Speaker 2
Okay, so, Nikki, this is something that a lot of podcasters struggle with is is finding sponsorship. And oftentimes it's the difference between keeping a show going and and closing it down. Yeah. What is your process for identifying the right sponsor and and reaching out and closing that.
01:11:16.490 — 01:11:49.320 · Speaker 1
Okay. So I think it is really hard to sell yourself and your own show. And I think that's where a lot of us fall short because we don't know how to communicate our value. Okay. Um, so you really need someone to speak on your behalf. You need to find someone in a create a team, somebody who can do your sales for you.
Preferably, if that's not an option. You've got to really figure out your value proposition. And if you believe in that value proposition, you know what value you're going to bring to a sponsor. Then you can communicate that coherent. It'll come through as real. It won't just be sales pitches.
01:11:49.360 — 01:11:56.680 · Speaker 2
Yes, but we're all taught from a young age. Not to toot our own horns, so it's exactly feel super uncomfortable when you suddenly have to do so.
01:11:56.720 — 01:12:32.640 · Speaker 1
And I think it's a very South African thing as well. The Americans have no problem tooting their horns and they get sponsors. It's like we should learn from that. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So if you can't speak up for yourself and you can't articulate your value or what your value or show can possibly bring to a sponsor, get someone on site who can okay and get it was really a valuable part of the lesson for me as well.
Okay. I have sponsored many shows. It's not easy because brands don't understand value. They have X amount of spend. You've got to really show them why they would be missing out if they didn't work with you. That's the key, I think.
01:12:32.680 — 01:12:36.920 · Speaker 2
And alignment on expectations. Do you do that early on immediately.
01:12:37.120 — 01:13:32.590 · Speaker 1
You've got to be very, very clear about boundaries. So whether it's in your personal life or in your business life or whether you've got it true. Yeah. You've got to be very, very clear about expectations. And early on ask that sponsor. Say, for instance, they're on board is what does success look like?
How do you how will you know if this is working for you? And even before you have shot your first app, how what will it take for you to go into a second season with me? How successful do we have to be? So we're all working towards the same goal and I think it takes it's silly, not silly. It's kind of like weird to use the word vulnerability in a business context, but I think that's what what it really is, is like, how are we going to make this work?
Whether it's a marriage or a business, it doesn't really matter. We've got to have those conversations, especially where brand is concerned, and have everything in writing and everything recorded, that there's no hearsay, misunderstanding, misunderstandings are they can break you.
01:13:32.630 — 01:13:48.340 · Speaker 2
Um, talk to me a little bit about your process for deciding who you're going to interview. What is your creative process and research look like? How much work goes into that? You know, we see the beautiful, polished, finished product. What has happened behind the scenes?
01:13:48.340 — 01:14:17.380 · Speaker 1
It's enormous. That is a massive amount of research and work. Tim Ferriss once said, I'm not going to talk to anyone. I'm not genuinely interested in talking to. And that really is. It's, you know, you can't pretend you're not a radio station where you have to have to interview somebody. You have no choice.
Um, and the podcast is not an interview. It's a conversation. And there's a there's a distinction. And you've got to really understand that. You want to sit and talk to this person for 35, 45 minutes.
01:14:17.500 — 01:14:19.260 · Speaker 2
And then it's got to feel.
01:14:19.260 — 01:14:19.940 · Speaker 1
Genuine.
01:14:19.940 — 01:14:22.740 · Speaker 2
Natural and easy and some flow.
01:14:22.780 — 01:14:56.890 · Speaker 1
So the first thing I do is, is I only talk to people. I really, really want to talk to that for me. And I really would say to anybody, you know, they've got to at least be interesting to you. Why is this going to look terrible? It's going to sound terrible. Um, and then you need to do your research. You really need to understand that person.
I like to produce that side of the show myself. Okay? so I like to make first contact with that potential guest and have a chat on the phone and see if we've got some kind of chemistry. Right. Even if we can just be talking to each other on the phone. That's a really good, good.
01:14:56.930 — 01:14:58.010 · Speaker 2
That's a good first.
01:14:58.050 — 01:15:35.730 · Speaker 1
It's a good step. That's what I was taught in radio. So the guys that I used to that used to produce the show on 702, we used to have a long conversation before each app to talk about what we're going to talk about, just to get the flow going and to create some, some kind of like familiarity around the topics and just make sure we're all on the same page.
So I think that's really, really important to do that. Yes. Um, and they've got to have a good story, right. You know, you, you know, you kind of sit there and pull detail painfully out of a person. It is it it's terrible to watch. Whoever's listening or watching will flip through very, very quickly.
01:15:35.770 — 01:15:40.450 · Speaker 2
Have you have you declined some guests after that first phone call and gone? Yeah.
01:15:40.650 — 01:16:10.600 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Plenty actually. Yeah, yeah. And you really want to know. You want to do your research. So what is lovely for a guest is if you if you have some background on them, if they didn't realize that you had or if they've written a book, read the book. Don't just read the first couple of pages. Read the book because then you get rapport.
Yes, rapport is is is electrifying on screen. It's also electrifying listening to it. If you're listening on on like Apple Podcasts. So you've really got to take an interest in the person.
01:16:10.720 — 01:16:36.520 · Speaker 2
And that's so interesting that you've mentioned that, because so much of what is beautiful about podcasting, whether it's audio only or video as well, is that the listener starts to build a relationship over time subconsciously. And so, you know, like when you walked in this morning and I heard your voice, I instantly felt something purely because I've listened to you enough that I.
01:16:36.600 — 01:16:36.840 · Speaker 1
You know.
01:16:37.080 — 01:16:49.190 · Speaker 2
I can hear the voice and there's those nuances. So it's quite weird when you're listening to an episode of someone that you listen to regularly, and they're speaking to someone you can feel when that flow isn't right.
01:16:49.230 — 01:17:01.430 · Speaker 1
Exactly, exactly. I don't think we pay enough attention to that. Yeah, it's very, very important. And our brains, our brains pick it up instantly whether there's a disconnect or not. So you want to be very careful. Yeah. Um, with with that.
01:17:01.470 — 01:17:19.990 · Speaker 2
Okay, so, Nikki, you mentioned that you'd like to do that pre-production work, interview and pre-interview with your your guests yourself. Talk to me a little bit about who else is around you, supporting you. Because I know what else you're up to. There's a lot going on. So how do you get all of this work done?
What does the team look like.
01:17:20.069 — 01:17:51.220 · Speaker 1
With the video podcast? So with Food Stories, we've got a massive team. We've got a production team, we've got marketing team, I've got an assistant. It's very difficult for me to utilize a team properly because I'm just I'm used to working solo. Right. Um, and I think if you really want to do something properly, you've got to give people, you've got to let them shine.
You've got to let them do their jobs. Um, so it's been a hell of a learning curve for me. So, yeah. So the audio only podcast I've always produced myself, I've edited myself, I've distributed myself.
01:17:51.260 — 01:17:52.940 · Speaker 2
Wow. You do all of that still. Now?
01:17:52.980 — 01:18:16.460 · Speaker 1
Still? No. You don't. I love it. Yeah. It's simple. It's easy. I've got it down to a simple formula. Yes. Um, but it's not ideal. And I don't think if you if you don't have a background in sound engineering or production, let's let a professional handle that. Yeah. Really and truly just sit there and do the interview and do what you do well and let somebody else do their job well.
Yeah. I think it's critical to getting anything right.
01:18:16.500 — 01:18:26.540 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. In that that process. So for the Reinvent Health podcast, you are doing all of that from start to finish yourself. Uh, what gear are you using?
01:18:27.100 — 01:18:32.420 · Speaker 1
Oh, I've got an AKG mic. Okay. Usually my clients connect via Zoom or Riverside.
01:18:32.460 — 01:18:32.860 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:18:32.900 — 01:18:34.300 · Speaker 1
Yes. Riverside's amazing.
01:18:34.340 — 01:18:35.180 · Speaker 2
Huge fans over.
01:18:35.180 — 01:18:39.020 · Speaker 1
Here. Okay. Um. And then I'm editing in audacity.
01:18:39.980 — 01:18:40.700 · Speaker 2
Incredible.
01:18:41.330 — 01:18:47.850 · Speaker 1
And there's not much to edit, so it's just putting the music underneath and clearing up a few blips. Did you.
01:18:47.850 — 01:18:49.010 · Speaker 2
Enjoy that?
01:18:49.130 — 01:19:07.050 · Speaker 1
I do. It's almost relaxing to just do like just listen to an F and edit the noise out for me because it's not my day job. It was my day job. I'd give it to somebody else, honestly. But. And it's not frequent. It's once a week and it doesn't take long and it's it's downtown. Yeah.
01:19:07.250 — 01:19:12.850 · Speaker 2
For me, I think a lot of people would, would hear once a week and get the thrills like that. It's quite frequent.
01:19:12.970 — 01:19:13.410 · Speaker 1
It's freaky.
01:19:13.450 — 01:19:15.370 · Speaker 2
How did you decide on the frequency?
01:19:15.490 — 01:19:49.440 · Speaker 1
I don't know if I, if I find someone nice to to, um, interview, I'll interview them, probably edit the next day and put it up that week. Okay. And there are at the moment a lot of people in the queue. So it'll be a weekly frequency. If it dies off a little bit, it'll probably be at a monthly frequency. So I'm not terribly hung up on the frequency.
And that's a really nice thing with podcasting, so you don't have to stick to a schedule. Um, you can distribute whenever you want to. You can split a long show into two. It doesn't matter. You've got a lot of freedom where you don't have in broadcasting to do what you like because it's yours. Yeah.
01:19:49.480 — 01:20:07.840 · Speaker 2
And it's. Well, I think that and the, the ability to stop and start, you know, I think in terms of our experience of speaking to people about coming onto the podcast, the fact that they are not live is a major factor. Yeah. It gives you that little bit of extra sort of breathing room.
01:20:07.840 — 01:20:08.600 · Speaker 1
Huge.
01:20:08.600 — 01:20:14.360 · Speaker 2
To go. Oh, I didn't like the way I said that. Can I redo it? And it's not you know.
01:20:14.480 — 01:20:15.280 · Speaker 1
Yeah. The pressure's.
01:20:15.280 — 01:20:16.400 · Speaker 2
Off. Yeah.
01:20:16.520 — 01:20:26.760 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Look, coming from a live radio background, yeah. Doesn't bother me at all. Um, but it is there is a freedom in knowing that you can just edit out a stupid sentence if it bothers you.
01:20:26.880 — 01:20:28.360 · Speaker 2
If you listen back to it and you go, what.
01:20:28.400 — 01:20:29.160 · Speaker 3
The hell?
01:20:29.280 — 01:20:50.150 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Made sense at the time, but now it just sounds daft. Okay. All right. So I want to go back a little bit here now to Discovering this this need to give back and building essay food stories. Um. What have you learned from these incredible guests that you've had.
01:20:50.470 — 01:21:44.180 · Speaker 1
So with, say, food stories? I love the humanity. So we've interviewed or I've interviewed some incredible people like the Tasha's and the Grace Hardings and some incredible authors, and we're just all the same. At the end of the day, we're all just a little bit nuts, really hard working, chasing our tails.
Um, and there's a there's a very clear South African element here is that we can almost resilience. I think the word is resilience. And when you really get into the nuts and bolts about what it takes to become top of your game, uh, people are amazing. Yeah. And these stories are incredible. Yeah. You know, Pullman was one of my favorite episodes, and this woman started off as a home economics teacher, and she started her brand in her garage with her family.
01:21:44.340 — 01:21:50.700 · Speaker 2
Before, like, a brand was even like her. The thing that everyone seems to want to do now.
01:21:50.740 — 01:22:03.900 · Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And she's just this normal, humble, amazing human. And it was incredibly humbling to be able to just talk to her about her life. And it's a gift to be able to do that and to take it out there and share her story with everybody else.
01:22:03.900 — 01:22:04.380 · Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:22:04.460 — 01:22:40.530 · Speaker 1
So, you know, you're going to touch lives just by sharing these stories, and it's like it's a gift. And what really what I love most is we've got this studio and we've got all these people in the studio, and it's so quiet and everyone's hanging on to every word that this person is speaking, and you can feel the emotion in the room and people cry at times and they all laugh at times.
And it's it's almost it's it's it's an incredible experience. So to have an opportunity, it is a privilege to have an opportunity to do that. It's like I do this for a living. Oh my God. That's amazing.
01:22:40.570 — 01:22:56.170 · Speaker 2
I get so lucky. Yeah. Okay, so modesty aside, now, there's also technique that you have that is clearly allowing these people to be, in some cases, quite vulnerable. Yeah. How do you do that? Okay. Where does that come from?
01:22:56.210 — 01:23:52.920 · Speaker 1
So as a nutritionist, as a functional nutritionist and with a background in psycho neuro immunology, which is mind body medicine, I was taught for years how to speak to people in a way that makes them comfortable rapport. So this is the I mean, if you are sitting in front of me and you need a diet and you have an illness, we've got to get down to the nitty gritty of where that came from and how we're going to fix it in a way that makes you feel safe and heard and held.
And if you can take that through into every conversation you have and it's genuine, it's not contrived. It's not. I'm doing this to get you to say something because I really actually care. Um, if you can bring that through, um, in a real way, you will always get the best out of people. And I think one of the best compliments I ever got was it was Tasha.
And she said to me, you make me feel safe. I don't usually do interviews. And I was like, I was so like, wow, I'm grateful that I could do that.
01:23:52.960 — 01:23:54.480 · Speaker 2
And the interview was lovely.
01:23:54.520 — 01:23:55.760 · Speaker 1
She's amazing.
01:23:56.080 — 01:23:57.760 · Speaker 2
Yeah, she does too much.
01:23:57.880 — 01:24:00.360 · Speaker 1
She she made me feel like an avatar.
01:24:01.680 — 01:24:20.320 · Speaker 2
Yeah, but it was it was a really interesting discussion and and I think that for me was also really quite eye opening is that there was a lot of depth to your discussions with these, with these people. And, you know, if you know that there's going to be lots of people listening, it is quite hard to open up. And you've, you've you've figured that out.
01:24:20.320 — 01:25:06.240 · Speaker 1
But you've got it. If there's a fine line between you don't expose somebody, you want them to still feel, you don't want them to have any regret for what they've said, but you want to give enough that they are open enough to make it a really interesting conversation. So I always ask people before we start talking, is there any way you don't want to go?
Right. Do we not want to talk about your kids? Fine. We don't bring your kids into this. Is there any area of conversation we need to stay away from? Most people say no, everything's fine, and it's all editable. So if you come back to me afterwards, say, oh, I really regret saying that, we'll take it out. You don't want people to feel bad about anything, but we do want people to be vulnerable enough so that the audience feels like they've got an in on a conversation they've never otherwise gets.
01:25:06.280 — 01:25:16.080 · Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%. Is that like a lack of voyeurism? Almost. Yes it is. There's a little bit of insight there that. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have, but I do. Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:16.120 — 01:25:18.000 · Speaker 1
That's that's the beauty of a podcast.
01:25:18.040 — 01:25:25.000 · Speaker 2
Do you find that you have questions that you never get to because the conversation meanders in a different direction or.
01:25:25.160 — 01:25:58.430 · Speaker 1
No, generally we always find a way to come back. What I do at the end of a podcast. So we wrap and then I give the sponsor a chance to ask their questions that we might not have got to. And we can build them in some way, so we might build them into the social clubs. Yes, we might build them in as a teaser or something like that.
And if there's something that I've been wanting to ask but didn't get to. Yes, we'll ask that as a separate. Okay. So we build all of those in. And sometimes that takes us off on a tangent and we go for another ten minutes. But I think if something's pressing enough and you know it's going to be interesting enough, you should go back there.
01:25:58.470 — 01:26:10.390 · Speaker 2
Yes. Well, that's why I think it's interesting. You've you've done your research and your thinking beforehand and you've got some things that you want to pull out. Yeah. And but, you know, a conversation never really flows according to a set of.
01:26:10.750 — 01:26:11.470 · Speaker 3
Questions.
01:26:11.470 — 01:26:11.710 · Speaker 2
That.
01:26:11.830 — 01:26:29.270 · Speaker 1
You have. Yeah. And often a guest will ask you for a list of questions. And you say to them, it's a framework. It's not a list. This is the this is the guide of where we kind of want to go, but we're going to let it flow. And I think if you can keep that top of mind, the conversation will always be good.
01:26:29.310 — 01:26:57.700 · Speaker 2
Yes. Potentially another red flag for a guest that maybe you don't want to have. It's if, you know, they need to have a set of questions to follow. Yeah. What do you feel is missing in the space that you are in as a podcaster, and the kind of content you're developing? Are they are there things you wish existed in the in the podcasting space in terms of content around nutrition or wellness or even the coaching side of things?
01:26:57.740 — 01:27:01.780 · Speaker 1
There are so many podcasts. I think there's not enough South African content.
01:27:01.900 — 01:27:29.939 · Speaker 2
We agree totally. And I think there's so much opportunity for South Africans, especially those in really particular niches. Yeah. Um, and I think wellness is one of those where as a listener, you feel like you, you are getting great advice when the content is good and the, the value that a person like yourself can give to people is tremendous and different to, you know, kind of like maybe
01:27:31.060 — 01:27:44.570 · Speaker 2
I'm trying to think of something more frivolous now, and I can't think of anything. But, you know, I just feel like there's a tremendous amount of value that the sector can give to listeners. Yeah. I'm just wondering if there's anything that you sort of identified as a as a gap.
01:27:44.650 — 01:28:16.370 · Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, wellness is so broad and there's so many nonsense stories out there. So you could be very discerning about who you choose to listen to. I think that's that's problematic. Brands, the bigger brands like the discoveries, and a lot of the insurance companies are seeing the the potential or the opportunity in podcasting.
But I think the smaller players really also need to find their voice. And podcasting is for free. Initially, you don't have to pay to be out there to get your voice heard. Yeah, I think that is really.
01:28:16.410 — 01:28:18.250 · Speaker 3
And I don't know, I suppose.
01:28:18.250 — 01:28:50.920 · Speaker 1
People hesitate because they they don't have the skills and they feel that it's going to cost them money to find people with the skills, but you don't need the skills initially. Yeah. It's very, very simple. Yes. To just get started. I can't even begin to emphasize the importance of just getting, getting, going.
It is going to be bad. Doesn't matter. Just start. The magic is in putting your foot in first and going and expecting the first five are going to be terrible. You can delete them later. Yeah, but start. And this goes exactly. It goes for everything in life.
01:28:50.960 — 01:28:51.520 · Speaker 3
Well, I was just.
01:28:51.520 — 01:29:01.600 · Speaker 2
About to say we used to do social media training at our agency. So in the early days of social media, there were loads of small businesses that couldn't afford an agency. Yeah. So we offer trainings.
01:29:01.600 — 01:29:02.200 · Speaker 1
It's brilliant.
01:29:02.240 — 01:29:17.480 · Speaker 2
But people around the table and we showed them the basics. Yeah. And that was the number one problem or hurdle for businesses is that they were like, oh, I don't know how to design. Well, I can't put this out and it's not very good. And we were just like, just go, just go.
01:29:17.520 — 01:29:18.400 · Speaker 3
Just start.
01:29:18.440 — 01:29:19.040 · Speaker 1
That's the only way.
01:29:19.040 — 01:29:30.470 · Speaker 2
Later on in the grid, you can go and you can go. That was horrible, horrible, horrible. Delete delete, delete. But if you don't start finding your rhythm and finding what does and doesn't work, you will always be stuck in the spot.
01:29:30.510 — 01:29:51.510 · Speaker 1
Exactly. And building on that consistency. So once you start it, don't stop. Yes. Just you've got to keep putting one foot in front of another. There was some crazy stat. I think it was like 1% of, you know. Out of all the podcasts, I think. I think it's 4% of all the podcasts ever created. Carry on or continue?
Yeah. Most of them fall off after F2.
01:29:51.550 — 01:29:54.790 · Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a very, very small percentage. They'd keep going.
01:29:54.790 — 01:29:58.830 · Speaker 1
So just to get to episode 12, you're already in the 1% already.
01:29:58.870 — 01:30:00.910 · Speaker 2
You've done far better than most.
01:30:01.350 — 01:30:10.750 · Speaker 1
And whether it's it's design or social media or creating a podcast. Just see it as a as a lesson. Yes. As an ongoing training. Yes.
01:30:10.830 — 01:30:24.470 · Speaker 2
So back to that consistency point. I read a stat the other day and I can't remember the number now, but it was quite mind boggling for me at the time was the number of people who will relisten to old episodes while they wait for new.
01:30:24.870 — 01:30:25.750 · Speaker 1
Okay. Okay.
01:30:25.790 — 01:30:41.420 · Speaker 2
So what that tells us is that brands don't actually realize how important it is to be consistent. And, you know, I think about my own listening behaviors and the podcasts that are always reach for and the, um,
01:30:42.500 — 01:30:49.860 · Speaker 2
not schedule, but the habits have formed around listening to certain voices at certain times of the day.
01:30:49.900 — 01:30:50.540 · Speaker 1
Interesting.
01:30:50.540 — 01:30:58.860 · Speaker 2
Now, if you suddenly have a hiatus of three months, what do you think will happen to that audience? Don't lose them and it'll be bleak.
01:30:58.900 — 01:30:59.300 · Speaker 1
Mhm.
01:30:59.660 — 01:31:02.540 · Speaker 2
Mhm. Be like you have ruined my morning walk.
01:31:02.580 — 01:31:03.060 · Speaker 1
I know.
01:31:03.300 — 01:31:04.660 · Speaker 2
Because I'm not listening to you right.
01:31:04.660 — 01:31:11.260 · Speaker 1
Now. If there's. Yeah I completely agree. If my regulars are not posting regularly I actually get annoyed. It is.
01:31:12.140 — 01:31:17.060 · Speaker 2
Do you get a lot of feedback from your listeners and what kind of form does that take?
01:31:17.100 — 01:31:39.490 · Speaker 1
So yes, I do so particularly with food stories. So we get a lot of people just putting really good comments out there. We don't get much negativity. um, I wouldn't really put much attention around negativity anyway, but we get a lot of people wanting to be on the show, lots of people nominating other people they know who they think would be interesting.
01:31:39.890 — 01:31:41.210 · Speaker 2
Do they go on a little list?
01:31:41.250 — 01:32:10.290 · Speaker 1
So we've created a spin off series specifically for smaller food sort of manufacturers, who we can highlight on the show so we can create another platform for them where they submit their own videos and their own sort of, um, social media posts, and we can amplify for them. So there is definitely a way we can do that.
So there's a lot of there seems to be a growing community around the show. Wonderful. Um. It's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. Yeah.
01:32:10.330 — 01:32:15.410 · Speaker 2
Any feedback that you've received that you've taken on board in terms of changes or adjustments to anything.
01:32:15.450 — 01:33:08.840 · Speaker 1
Have had nothing yet? Nothing yet. Look, Food Stories is high production value. There's. Yes, there aren't many. As you know, very few, um, podcasts that are produced like this and like, you know, so we put a lot of attention into into the way it's we shoot it as if it was going to be broadcast on TV. Right?
Um, that's the way it should be. Not always possible for everybody. And you certainly don't have to do that. You can put your camera in your living room with your with your phone if you really have to, and it'll still work. Yeah. I mean, there's some podcasts that I listen to. I don't listen to them much anymore.
Um, American. I can't remember her name, but she must have like a in the millions. The millions of downloads. Okay. But the sound quality in the video quality was appalling. Yeah. Appalling. It was, like, almost painful to listen to, but her content was amazing. Yes. And that's why she has a million downloads.
So, yeah. Who's to say?
01:33:08.880 — 01:33:40.030 · Speaker 2
Well I think yeah. And I think it's always going to be a fine line between, you know, whether or not the content is worth me pushing through the terrible sound. I mean, we were listening to a different podcast the other day, and they were interviewing someone and claimed that they had a dog barking in the background.
and we were just, like, straining over all of this background noise to hear what was really insightful information that he was sharing. But, you know, there's sometimes these, these things that creep in that you don't have any control over. As a host of a show.
01:33:40.190 — 01:33:40.990 · Speaker 1
Yeah. No.
01:33:40.990 — 01:33:49.830 · Speaker 2
True. And then you, you know, you potentially lose credibility I guess, when the quality isn't completely agree.
01:33:49.870 — 01:34:04.310 · Speaker 1
Look as having been in the industry, my pet peeve is bad sound. Yeah, I can forgive a little bit of glitchy video, but bad sound. I can't I can't go there. Yeah. And everyone has their quirk. And then there are people who can just deal with anything. So it's fine.
01:34:04.790 — 01:34:13.750 · Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. You have one that's audio only and one that's a video podcast. Any kind of feelings about the differences on the two?
01:34:13.790 — 01:34:37.419 · Speaker 1
So the the audio only was because a lot of guests just don't want to be on video, right? And because we are also I'm interviewing a lot of them via zoom. Okay. And the audio quality is just not okay. Yeah. And many, many like in Covid. Who wants to put on makeup, get dressed even and do your hair. And I think if you're going to be on video you've got to at least get that right.
Yes. So with.
01:34:37.419 — 01:34:38.500 · Speaker 2
A small amount of effort.
01:34:38.540 — 01:35:23.530 · Speaker 1
A small amount of effort. So I thought just the freedom of not having to do that would be easier. It would be easier to get people to say yes if they knew they weren't going to be videoed. A lot of people don't want to be on camera. Yeah. Um, nowadays, I think a lot of us are used to it from, you know, from teams calls all the time.
So we're kind of like, okay with it. It was just a big barrier to entry. And there's a Puritan part of me having been in radio for so long that loves the theater of, of of the mind and that if we can make really good audio quality, why would we want to do video? That said, if you want to get a sponsor on board, you're going to have to go video, because you're going to have to have video clips to to put that on social media.
Yeah. And if you really want to add value for your sponsor, you're going to have to you really have to take that seriously.
01:35:23.530 — 01:35:26.810 · Speaker 2
The marketing side of things adds a whole extra element.
01:35:27.050 — 01:35:43.930 · Speaker 1
Completely, so you just can't get the reach with that video. Yeah. If you look at what's working on social media, whether it be Instagram or TikTok, obviously TikTok being a video platform, but that's where the big numbers come in. So if you're going to go and look for a sponsor and say, I'm going to get you 3 million views, you're going to have to do that video.
01:35:43.970 — 01:35:45.450 · Speaker 2
The video really needs to be there.
01:35:45.490 — 01:35:56.930 · Speaker 1
Yeah. So I didn't create the Reinvent Health podcast for many making anyway. Um, so LOL came to me, I think it was a year ago to say they wanted to sponsor a couple of apps, which was amazing. Yes. And that's where I got it.
01:35:56.970 — 01:35:59.370 · Speaker 2
So you didn't send that request out. Okay.
01:35:59.410 — 01:36:09.490 · Speaker 1
They came to me and I got a taste of what I could, what I could feel like to make money out of this thing. And then I was like, oh, that's it. Now I have to. That's why I quit. Also why I created Food Story was like, okay, we're going to make money in.
01:36:09.570 — 01:36:09.970 · Speaker 2
Business.
01:36:09.970 — 01:36:14.330 · Speaker 1
Here. There's a business. Yes. And if you do it right, you can make you can make good money. Yeah.
01:36:14.610 — 01:36:35.240 · Speaker 2
Yeah. So I think that's initially the first hurdle is that sponsorship side of things. And have you ever struggled with the creative direction and the push pull with a sponsor in terms of them dictating anything about the content or how it looks. So as you navigate.
01:36:35.240 — 01:37:03.680 · Speaker 1
That, you've got to be very clear and you've got to understand each other from the get go before you shoot an app and say, you know, for example, if a a food brand wanted to come on board as a sponsor and they want to put their coffee on the table, you've got to tell them whether that's going to work for you or not.
And you've got also take the risk knowing that they may not sponsor you if you send them out to put your coffee on the table, because it's going to look like hard ad placements. And we don't want that.
01:37:03.680 — 01:37:05.840 · Speaker 2
And they're not sponsored, by the way.
01:37:06.880 — 01:37:38.430 · Speaker 1
And, you know, you've got to I think I think a lot of big brands managers understand nowadays that we can't put brands in people's faces because it turns people off just like the beginning and the mid and the end role reads. We do that with food stories? I don't believe it's actually doing a brand, any service because I skip over those reads and most people do anyway.
We've got to find creative ways of bringing a brand into a show where it feels like an enhancement and part of the story. And you can do this if you just click if you're creative about it.
01:37:38.470 — 01:37:42.310 · Speaker 2
Well, I thought the fact that the brands had questions for your guests was genius.
01:37:42.430 — 01:37:58.110 · Speaker 1
That's how we do it. And I mean, there was a there was a an instance. It was perfect. I mean, it was actually I think it was ordained. It was so perfect. I was talking to Jay something and Coco, this was the first app that we recorded. Lovely couple. You're going to say.
01:37:58.150 — 01:37:59.590 · Speaker 2
Well, it's if two technically.
01:37:59.790 — 01:38:46.620 · Speaker 1
If two. But it's the first one we recorded. Gotcha, gotcha. So I mean, this was like I mean, it was ridiculous that I was interviewing these two. It was the first one that we had recorded, and they were at these high profile celebs. And it was it was a little bit nerve wracking. But anyway, so we got off to a night.
I mean, but they speak beautifully and they're such lovely people. And I asked him how important a financial services provider was for his restaurants. I didn't even know he had a restaurant, to be honest. Okay, he's a musician and I knew they were in the food industry on some level, but I really didn't know to what extent.
And he started talking about FMB and their partnership with FMB and his friendship with the then CEO of FMB and FMB as a sponsor. And I was like, how did this happen? This is amazing. Oh my God. And I just sat there going.
01:38:46.900 — 01:38:47.420 · Speaker 2
Beaming.
01:38:47.460 — 01:39:14.020 · Speaker 1
Keep talking baby, keep talking. And we clip that out. And they were absolutely thrilled. Obviously you couldn't have engineered it better. Better. Yeah. And I had no idea that they even had a relationship with FMB. So that's the kind of brand integration you've got to kind of figure out how to do that.
You've got to have these very honest conversations with brands. Just so how do we make it feel natural for the audience that the audience automatically thinks of you without it being thrown in their face?
01:39:14.380 — 01:39:23.090 · Speaker 2
I do also believe that the the host lead read. Yeah. Is not the worst.
01:39:23.810 — 01:39:25.090 · Speaker 1
It depends how it's done.
01:39:25.170 — 01:40:02.650 · Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I think that there's an understanding from the listener. Right. You're right. And certainly for myself, and I know that's a terrible way to look at things always through your own lenses. But you know, you understand that that content for it to be that good. There has so much work that goes into it.
Someone has to be paying for this. So if there's a sponsor, I'm kind of not that mad. And I think also, once you've built that relationship with that podcast or the person creating this beautiful content, when they are telling you about something, you're happier to hear, that message.
01:40:02.690 — 01:40:11.010 · Speaker 1
Makes a lot of sense. And I like the way you said it. So if I was doing a live read, I'd say for the show to be so good, right? We need a sponsor and.
01:40:11.010 — 01:40:12.850 · Speaker 2
There's so much work that's happening.
01:40:12.970 — 01:40:13.530 · Speaker 1
Exactly.
01:40:13.570 — 01:40:33.560 · Speaker 2
And and, you know, I think that over time, as podcasts become more and more integrated into every consumer's daily life, it's going to be more and more normal, for want of a better word for that read to be there. And certainly in my experience, it's preferable to that ad break that comes.
01:40:33.560 — 01:40:33.840 · Speaker 1
In.
01:40:33.880 — 01:40:43.840 · Speaker 2
Brick. That isn't my person talking anymore. Sure. And it just it's jolting. It doesn't flow. But I get why those are there as well. So, you know, the continuity.
01:40:43.840 — 01:42:15.710 · Speaker 1
It's still the host's voice does help. It doesn't break you out of your spell too badly, but I think it can still be done better. Yeah. Um, and I think, you know what a brand or brands don't realize. A lot of them do, but most of them don't. Is that the majority of our views and our touchpoints with the audience really comes through social media, not through the show itself.
The show is going to be a slow adoption. Yes, because there long people don't listen all the way through in one go. It will change your data. So your listenership or your listen thrus are going to be all over the place. initially. It's going to take time for those whole episodes to get traction. Yes, a good 100 episodes later.
That's what it takes. Yeah, but where are we going? To see a big bang for your buck initially, is what we do on social media and how we put those clips out? Yes. And that viral content that we create. So that's who we are. That's where our spend goes. And that's where we see our return on investment. And if we can also be very clear about that.
So we're going to put a lot of energy and expectation from myself to my brand. I expect you to amplify on your side as well, maybe on paid media, but you've got to get that out to your network. And that's where I think Food Stories has been so successful. Because good Food is a is a distributor, not a sponsor.
So Chefs Association is a distributor, not a sponsor. And a distributor will make sure it gets out to a broader market. So yeah, it's just a different way of thinking about it. You've got to have distribution partners as well who have got exposure on your brand, but they're going to get it out to a big audience.
01:42:15.740 — 01:42:16.220 · Speaker 2
Audience.
01:42:16.260 — 01:42:24.300 · Speaker 1
They've got the platform. Yeah. And then you're adding value for your sponsor through your distributor, and then they're happy to share that space with the distribution partner.
01:42:25.180 — 01:42:32.340 · Speaker 2
Um, how much time are you spending comparatively to the recording process on the marketing side of things?
01:42:32.980 — 01:42:51.780 · Speaker 1
Three times more time. Huge. The majority of our time is spent on how we market, where we position is it performing, what are we learning from where we've been in the past? How are we going to change it going forward? It's a very dynamic process. Um, we've learned so much from season one. Where are we going to position?
Season two is almost completely different.
01:42:51.860 — 01:42:59.940 · Speaker 2
Yeah. That was my follow up question. Have you? I bet there was a strategy. Yeah. You've now done a season. How different is is season two stretched?
01:42:59.940 — 01:43:27.050 · Speaker 1
So what we didn't do in season one was, um, tick tock. Big mistake. So we thought, well, because it's mostly B2B, we're going to put a lot of effort into LinkedIn. Very expensive. Um, meta as well. Meta. Facebook? Not so much. Uh, and what we're going to do going forward is put about 40% of our spend into TikTok because, yes, even the brand people watch TikTok at night.
They might be on LinkedIn in the day, but they're on TikTok.
01:43:27.290 — 01:43:28.890 · Speaker 2
And secretly, we're all on TikTok.
01:43:28.930 — 01:43:40.730 · Speaker 1
We're all on TikTok. Exactly. So you've got to see it for what it is. And it's not a I was going to say it's the mistake we made. The, the, um, we thought it was B to B.
01:43:40.770 — 01:43:43.650 · Speaker 2
The decision was there. Yeah. And now you have a new one.
01:43:43.690 — 01:44:06.890 · Speaker 1
We have a new. And you've got to be able to change your mind and move fast no matter what you do. And this is a problem for big brands and big corporates is they can't move fast and they can't change plans quickly. And this is the advantage. We have a small smaller agencies and smaller sort of producers as we can change your mind.
Yeah. At 3:00 in the morning and change it in tomorrow.
01:44:06.930 — 01:44:07.730 · Speaker 2
Tomorrow is different.
01:44:07.730 — 01:44:28.760 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And that's where that's your secret advantage. Yeah. And I think a lot of corporates are seeing this and they're figuring that if they want to stay relevant, they've got to be able to move fast as well. Um, the beauty of, of, of being online and having a podcast is you can change things really quickly.
It's not like print media. Once you've boxed up the billboard, you screwed. Yeah.
01:44:30.080 — 01:45:04.880 · Speaker 1
We're not. We can change anything. We can move fast. We can change our strategy tomorrow and we can still deliver huge value. So that's it. Even though I change our strategy, the strategy originally which we originally had, has been incredibly successful. We have got, I think it's six times higher. Um, hit rates, for want of a better word.
Yeah. Then we anticipated. Yeah. So it has been incredibly successful, but it could still be better, more fine tuned. And I think you've got to just keep that in mind all the time. It's constant. Not perfection, it's excellence.
01:45:04.960 — 01:45:07.240 · Speaker 2
Yes. And are we a constant striving.
01:45:07.280 — 01:45:18.510 · Speaker 1
Constant striving to do better all the time and add value for your sponsor? You want them to be with you forever. Yes. You want them to take more apps? Yes. You want them to be thrilled. So you've got to keep that in mind, too. Yeah. Yeah.
01:45:18.630 — 01:45:35.990 · Speaker 2
Do you give them feedback that you're getting from your your listeners? Because I think that's also sometimes the challenge with, with sponsors is the the disconnect. Yes. Right. They're just over there and being seen to be just Mr. and Mrs. Moneybags. Yes. And they're not as close to the action as as we are.
01:45:36.030 — 01:45:43.470 · Speaker 1
You have to bring them in on the action they have to have not just skin in the game, but they have an emotional connection in the game. Our sponsors are on set.
01:45:43.510 — 01:45:44.590 · Speaker 2
I was going to say, are they there with.
01:45:44.590 — 01:46:02.910 · Speaker 1
You on set? We take photos with them and the guests. They get to ask the guest questions themselves. They get to be very much closely part of the process and they get constant feedback. You don't give them data once a month. You give them data on a weekly basis, so they feel like they instrumental in the success of what they're involved with.
01:46:02.950 — 01:46:09.030 · Speaker 2
Yeah, well, they're also buying in at every single one of those little touch points. Yes. So it's also very clever.
01:46:09.030 — 01:46:18.940 · Speaker 1
It's communication whether again, whether it's a relationship or whether it's your sponsor, you've got to keep them in communication. Yeah, constantly. Yeah. Yeah. They feel safe.
01:46:19.780 — 01:46:22.940 · Speaker 2
Nicky, have you ever done the Enneagram test? I have, what number are you?
01:46:22.980 — 01:46:23.620 · Speaker 1
I think it's a.
01:46:23.620 — 01:46:24.220 · Speaker 2
Six or a.
01:46:24.220 — 01:46:25.180 · Speaker 1
Six. Think.
01:46:25.420 — 01:46:26.180 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:46:26.820 — 01:46:28.660 · Speaker 1
I think so. It was a long time ago.
01:46:28.700 — 01:46:34.860 · Speaker 2
The six is constantly looking out for the things that could potentially go wrong, and making plans to avoid as they go.
01:46:34.900 — 01:46:35.860 · Speaker 1
That's pretty much me.
01:46:35.900 — 01:46:36.220 · Speaker 2
Okay.
01:46:36.260 — 01:46:38.860 · Speaker 1
3:00 in the morning. Like, what could go wrong today?
01:46:38.900 — 01:46:44.860 · Speaker 2
This is what's coming down the path. This is plan B. Plan C, you've got a plan all the way through to Z.
01:46:44.900 — 01:46:59.380 · Speaker 1
What I did with season one is I had my spreadsheet with my costings printed on my bedside table. So if I woke up at 3:00 in the morning, oh, if I've forgotten something, I was like, no, it's there, it's go to sleep. I literally did that. It's like, you can go back to bed.
01:46:59.420 — 01:47:00.180 · Speaker 2
That's amazing.
01:47:00.220 — 01:47:00.660 · Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:47:01.300 — 01:47:04.340 · Speaker 2
So a very loyal tab. So that's why I think you stick to things.
01:47:04.380 — 01:47:07.260 · Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. No, very much so. Yeah.
01:47:07.860 — 01:47:20.210 · Speaker 2
Well, Nicki, it has been such a Fantastic. Interesting conversation. Thank you. Thank you for sharing so much of your journey. I'm going to steal the question of yours and throw it at you.
01:47:20.810 — 01:47:21.250 · Speaker 1
Oh.
01:47:22.010 — 01:47:27.290 · Speaker 2
What is the lesson that you've learned that you'd most like to pay forward?
01:47:27.890 — 01:47:28.490 · Speaker 1
Wow.
01:47:29.050 — 01:47:30.570 · Speaker 2
I love that question.
01:47:30.610 — 01:47:33.330 · Speaker 1
I never thought someone would ask me that. Oh my God.
01:47:34.890 — 01:47:36.530 · Speaker 1
The lesson I've learned
01:47:38.170 — 01:47:43.570 · Speaker 1
is to trust more. Trust the people you bring into your team. Let them do their job.
01:47:45.050 — 01:47:52.970 · Speaker 1
Let go. Let go. Let let you bring in really good people who know what to do. Let them do it. Yes. That's the lesson I'd like to pay forward.
01:47:54.130 — 01:48:06.410 · Speaker 2
I hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. There were lots of very useful nuggets for those of you listening carefully. Go out there and start your podcast journey and remember trust.
