Episode 58 Charles Hsaun from Flying Kite.txt
English (US)
01:00:00.120 — 01:00:04.440 · Speaker 1
It is one of the most underutilized selling tool, the.
01:00:04.480 — 01:00:07.840 · Speaker 2
Alphabet soup of selling. Why did you write this book?
01:00:07.880 — 01:00:15.200 · Speaker 1
A lot of times people get taught who they target, how to target, but they never get taught when to walk away.
01:00:17.040 — 01:00:22.040 · Speaker 3
Welcome back to the cave. I’m here with Charles Swain. How’s it? Charles? Are you well this morning?
01:00:22.120 — 01:00:25.120 · Speaker 1
Glad to be here. It’s a beautiful day. Thank you so much for your time.
01:00:25.120 — 01:00:29.080 · Speaker 3
Great, great. And Charles is an author, a
01:00:30.160 — 01:00:34.080 · Speaker 3
selling guru. Uh, what else are you, Charles? Tell us who you are.
01:00:34.120 — 01:01:15.420 · Speaker 1
Sure. Um, you know, I kind of had a feeling that that this question is going to come up, and I think the best way to put it is, um, one of the reasons why I believe I’m here today is we’ve all been given certain talents. And, uh, the career that I’m in now as an SSL coach, it was an accidental career. And on top of that, you know, I’m a I’m a proud dad of a little young boy, about 23, and I’m married to the most amazing wife, and I’m just really, really glad that I can just make people’s lives better just through the talents I’ve been given.
Great. That’s that’s basically in a nutshell. I accidentally got into this career. It was not an available career.
01:01:15.580 — 01:01:22.740 · Speaker 3
All right. And the the career is, in a sense, helping other people sell better, more essentially.
01:01:22.740 — 01:01:23.940 · Speaker 1
So, you know, like.
01:01:25.100 — 01:03:01.820 · Speaker 1
So I’ll tell you how I if I look back looking back 20 years ago, how this came about and I call it my accidental first sale. So I was in my third year of university studying financial management, and there was a subject called commercial law. And every time I tell the story, people that did commercial law, they all go, oh, they’re having my tests because you have to memorize a big, thick book.
And they literally it’s memory because it’s law. And what’s your subject? I went in there with 30%, I needed that one subject to pass to get my degree. I started my battle and I got a rewrite, which I did pretty well. I got 48, but there’s no way I wanted to do a whole year just for that. I went to the lecture and I review the paper, and she was very kind and we found nothing.
And then just out of the corner of my eye, I saw that William, there was an envelope. And viewers, this was 20 odd years ago. People used to buy tickets from like, travel agents. There was an actual envelope that says Flight Center. So instinctively, instinctively, I said to her, ma’am, are you going on holiday?
She said, yes, but I’m stuck here mocking papers and I don’t want to do that. And this is what I said. True story, I said to him. I meant three things. Um. Oh, by the way, how long does it take for you to make a paper? She said like 90 minutes. So I said, this is what I say to him. Three things. One is December is the time of giving.
Second of all, you just say you don’t want to mark another paper. So what do you say? She looked at me. She let me pass.
01:03:02.940 — 01:04:34.970 · Speaker 1
That’s that’s that’s all going on degree. That’s. And then looking back, looking back, it made me realize something that instinctively, I knew I didn’t make it about me. It’s like saying I didn’t make it about me. Imagine if I winning. Then call to say call. It’s not fair. All my friends on holiday I need to pass.
You’d be like, that’s your problem. You should have studied harder. I made it about her in. And also what I call. I left the little pebble in her shoe to say that. Listen, you just told me you don’t want to mark another paper. It takes you 90 minutes. So how about me? Take, like, help you save 90 minutes of your time?
That’s all I said. And the thing is, I have no bargaining chips. What did I have to offer her? I gave it a shot, and that’s how I got my degree. So that’s why I say, like, my tradition, my my original, um, Career choice was in financial management because I wanted to be a stockbroker. I was young and naive because I wanted to make money and I thought stockbroking.
I started making a stockbroker. I worked in the banking industry for seven years, hated every second of it. That’s why I say the career that I’m in now, you can’t see that. It wasn’t a career choice. Like in high school, we had the following career choice. Sales coaching was not a career choice. And somewhere, somehow, over the years, I received lots of great training and I started training.
My my, my colleagues eventually turned it into a business. And it’s being this will be your number number nine now starting in 2017.
01:04:35.010 — 01:04:37.170 · Speaker 3
Amazing, amazing. Okay. So let’s talk.
01:04:38.010 — 01:04:40.290 · Speaker 1
Sorry. That was a long winded way.
01:04:40.290 — 01:04:48.010 · Speaker 3
To let’s let’s talk about the alphabet soup of selling. So this is the the book that you’ve written. Why did you write this book.
01:04:48.450 — 01:05:12.310 · Speaker 1
Three reasons. One, you know, I’m a man of faith. So. And I know that we’ve all been given certain talents. So that book, it’s my small way of saying, look, you’ve given me lots of talents and this is what I’ve done with it so far. Um, and I hope it can help lots of people. So that’s number one. Number two, I actually looked up the root word of sales as sales.
And it comes from the old
01:05:13.430 — 01:06:06.330 · Speaker 1
English word selling Aslan, which means to give, to provide, to exchange. So in other words, that it’s written for any business person that don’t have selling in their title. Because if you’re a business, you need to provide a service. You need to exchange it for something. That’s basically what what’s what’s it all about.
And I specifically do it in a non salesy way because I know selling has a very, very bad reputation. Sleazy people talk too much blah blah, blah, blah blah. And also I wrote it, um, for my son, um, at one of the chapters is dedicated to him. So when he is old enough to read one day to say, hey, you might think daddy can fix everything and everything at your age, I don’t actually know, but this is what I do know and hopefully this will help you become a better communicator in life.
So those are the three reasons why I wrote the book.
01:06:06.370 — 01:06:10.330 · Speaker 3
Okay, so and so it’s written that anybody can understand it basically.
01:06:10.370 — 01:06:45.730 · Speaker 1
Absolutely. You know, and here’s the here was the litmus test. I specifically made it like at maximum grade eight a grade nine or grade ten level. So a friend of mine bought it in England and his son is nine. He got hold of the book and he’s reading it and loving it. He’s nine years old. Wow. So if a nine year old cannot understand what I’m writing, then I’m pretty sure an adult will understand.
And there’s no jargons because I’ve seen and I’ve seen this over and over. Like when I get feedback from readers, they’re like, wow, there’s no there’s no jargon. It reads like a story. I’m like, thank you. Because it was very intentional.
01:06:45.890 — 01:06:49.670 · Speaker 3
All right. Why do you think that storytelling works so well.
01:06:49.870 — 01:06:50.590 · Speaker 1
Well,
01:06:51.670 — 01:07:09.350 · Speaker 1
again, I know not everybody’s believers of faith. Um, so if you look at the whole Bible, it’s about stories and our brain is wired. And our darling, you mentioned in the previous episode that our brains are wired for storytelling. It is that I don’t know a single person that don’t enjoy a good story.
01:07:09.670 — 01:07:10.310 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:07:10.590 — 01:07:28.030 · Speaker 1
I don’t, because, um, I think it’s just our awareness where our brain is wired because it helps make sense. Even like my son had a being like three, if I tell him stories, I can make up stories and he’ll be like, wow. But if I just give him dry facts, he won’t. I can see he won’t get it. Mm.
01:07:28.270 — 01:07:44.350 · Speaker 3
So. So when you go into a business or a corporate and you, you’re coaching people to be to sell better, what do you think is their biggest stumbling block when it comes to. Is it storytelling. Is it confidence. What is it.
01:07:44.390 — 01:08:16.690 · Speaker 1
All boils down to to to one thing and that is, I believe it is one of the most underutilized selling tools. And that is asking questions. Because if you think about people that cold call you, people that email you, if you read through what they say, they don’t ask any questions. Yeah, they don’t. And you immediately switch off because questions.
Open up conversations. Conversations leads to opportunities. Opportunity leads to sales.
01:08:17.290 — 01:08:17.690 · Speaker 3
Uh.
01:08:18.050 — 01:09:03.630 · Speaker 1
Right. Because once I, I always explain this to to to to people that if I ask you questions to understand you a little bit more, then I know what to provide for you instead of just saying, hey, you really need this Ferrari. It’s the best Ferrari. So let’s say if you’re going to, let’s use the example, you’re going to a car dealership to buy a car.
And the guy say, I got the perfect car for you. You’re like, I just walked in. I don’t think so. Whereas if I ask you a few questions. Hey, Carl, what brought you here today? I see that you’re driving a I don’t know what car you drive. Uh, what made you want to come in here? Are you just looking around? Are you looking for a performance car?
Um, are you getting married? Then once I asked you the set of questions, then recommend you’d be more likely to listen so people don’t ask enough questions.
01:09:04.790 — 01:09:06.630 · Speaker 3
It sounds so simple, though.
01:09:06.830 — 01:09:25.710 · Speaker 1
It is. And unfortunately, I’ve noticed this. Like even at network events, people don’t ask questions and they surprise that you ask them questions. Um, there’s a lady, um, that at one of the network groups that we belong to, and she said to me, Charles, I’ve noticed you asked me a lot of questions and makes me feel really good.
I’m like.
01:09:26.070 — 01:09:27.390 · Speaker 3
Well, that’s the point.
01:09:27.870 — 01:09:33.230 · Speaker 1
Well, it’s not I mean, I don’t do that to make it feel good because I am really interested in her backstory.
01:09:33.270 — 01:09:33.750 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:09:33.790 — 01:10:56.600 · Speaker 1
So imagine if you’re going and next year, next time going to shop, see if shop assistants ask you a question. If you say, I’m looking for, let’s say this tool there too, they’ll show you where it is. And that’s the end of that. That’s not selling. That’s called overtaking. So I remember there’s a book that I read from.
I forgot the guy’s name now. Um, uh, he wrote the book called Unreasonable Hospitality. Um, and he said that, uh, service is black and white. Hospitality is color. And I thought that was very, very profound. So this is what he meant. If you go into a restaurant, let’s say you order a burger. Medium rare. I give it to you on time.
Medium rare. That service that’s black and white. That’s not hospitality. Hospitality is. I anticipate certain needs before you see it. Let’s say if you have certain gestures or overheard a conversation. So he used an example in the book that that’s why he called it unreasonable. So they have a restaurant that is high end.
And uh, and he, he uses he shared a story that there was a couple with the kids from from Spain, and the kids had never seen snow. And this was in December in Central Park. And they were like blown, blown away by he just overheard it. And what did he do? He went to buy the whole family ski boots, got them taxi to Central Park.
01:10:57.640 — 01:11:04.720 · Speaker 1
Imagine that was you and your family that’s gone beyond service. Yeah. That’s hospitality.
01:11:05.920 — 01:11:14.480 · Speaker 1
That’s what I mean. It just need to. If you. It’s like the way you treat a friend, you pay more attention instead of just say, here’s the food, here’s a check.
01:11:14.520 — 01:11:20.520 · Speaker 3
And you have to be genuinely interested, though you can’t really fake interest in someone’s backstory.
01:11:20.560 — 01:11:49.860 · Speaker 1
Absolutely. And I remember I was I was coaching a group of, uh, a company there in cloud accounting. And he literally he’s like, Charles, I don’t really care too much about the clients I deal with, but I have to pretend to be interested. I’m like, well, then you’re you’re in the wrong career because people can spot it.
Yeah, they can. They it’s like they can smell it when he’s trying to sell them stuff. It’s. And it stinks. So if you don’t enjoy what you do, or if you don’t believe in the product that you’re selling, you’re in the wrong job.
01:11:50.140 — 01:11:53.060 · Speaker 3
Yeah. And then you’re you’re not going to sell anyway.
01:11:53.100 — 01:12:07.219 · Speaker 1
No. Because people people can feel it. People can feel if you’re having a I think it’s it’s all sixth sense. We can feel if somebody is genuine or not. So I can’t teach you how to beat you anyone. You either enjoy it or you not. If you’re not, then rather
01:12:08.260 — 01:12:13.340 · Speaker 1
get look for another employment or different kind of career because it might not be for you.
01:12:13.380 — 01:12:24.140 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay, so we talk about podcasts on this podcast. If you are selling podcasts to a client, what’s the type of questions you would be asking them?
01:12:25.300 — 01:12:26.420 · Speaker 1
Uh can you.
01:12:28.700 — 01:12:30.219 · Speaker 1
Okay. Let’s let’s say
01:12:31.380 — 01:12:34.500 · Speaker 1
what kind of company should they be? What kind of what what did they sell?
01:12:34.540 — 01:12:36.380 · Speaker 3
Um, a banking.
01:12:36.620 — 01:12:42.720 · Speaker 1
Bank. Okay, so a private banking or like normal everyday clients.
01:12:42.760 — 01:12:43.120 · Speaker 3
Everyday.
01:12:43.120 — 01:12:48.880 · Speaker 1
Clients, everyday clients. I’ll find out from them. First of all, do they listen to podcasts themselves?
01:12:49.280 — 01:12:49.920 · Speaker 3
Okay.
01:12:50.160 — 01:13:49.340 · Speaker 1
Because if they don’t, I think it’s a bit of a hard sell. It’s like if people don’t read books and you’re trying to sell them, tell them, go read books. They’ll be like, nah, I’ll find out from them. First of all, do you, do you? How do you consume information? And how do you know who to trust? So let’s say hypothetically, they do listen to podcasts.
They do listen to certain things. I’ll ask them, what is it about podcasts or about that show that you like specifically, and do you think your audience will be enjoying wine or not? So let’s say if it’s one of the banks that that that, um, target middle to low income, then I’ll ask him straight up, do you think people that in middle to low income have do you think that’s the way they consume content.
And what does the data say. That’s how I all engaged. Because one of the things, um, that that I’ve noticed is a lot of times people get taught who they target, how to target, but they never get taught when to walk away.
01:13:49.980 — 01:13:51.020 · Speaker 3
That’s interesting.
01:13:51.020 — 01:13:57.980 · Speaker 1
And I call it my most expensive sales mistake. And I share that story. Yeah. It will be less than three minutes.
01:13:58.020 — 01:13:58.540 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:13:58.580 — 01:14:02.940 · Speaker 1
Um, it was my most expensive sales mistake, and it cost me half a million.
01:14:03.140 — 01:14:03.580 · Speaker 3
Wow.
01:14:03.820 — 01:14:15.060 · Speaker 1
And this was ten years ago, so it’s probably more now. So years ago, I used to work in advertising industry. And back then my target was, I think, 3 to 4 million. And this deal was half a million. So it’s you know, it’s.
01:14:15.060 — 01:14:15.740 · Speaker 3
A significant.
01:14:15.780 — 01:14:40.280 · Speaker 1
Big chunk. Yeah. So it was a it was a client in uh, that I targeted. They were in financial services and we sold. I worked with a company called Entrepreneur Magazine. So we sold either print or digital banners either. Um, so I met up with them at the pace. The whole nine yards chased them for four months eventually sign on the dotted line.
Half a mill and my CEO call everybody.
01:14:40.320 — 01:14:46.920 · Speaker 4
Say, this is how you’re supposed to do. You don’t give up. You you you you you know, tenacity. You know, all this lovely things.
01:14:46.920 — 01:14:54.880 · Speaker 1
And then that’s where the nightmare started. Okay. So you’re thinking, like, why? Because they were the wrong client. Because from day one,
01:14:56.360 — 01:15:51.580 · Speaker 1
every time they pick up a phone, every time the email comes, something’s wrong. We want more discount. We need you to design the ad. This wasn’t right. That wasn’t right. And I had to go to the to to beg people. Please help me fix it. It’s half a million rand. Deal. Basically, the the the emotional tax wasn’t worth it.
So if I can go back and if you were my colleague, as I call, you can have this client, you can have the half a million. You can have this straight. I don’t want it. And a lot of times when I explain this to people and I can I can guarantee you this. Like if I say to you, list your top five clients that you feel like it’s highly profitable, profitable, they’re always common traits.
Yeah, and I’m guessing they probably come with a clear brief and know exactly what they want. They respect your process and all those things. I’ve seen this happen over and over, and the people that don’t do that don’t waste time because we only have 1440 minutes a day that’s actually eating, sleeping.
01:15:51.740 — 01:15:52.380 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:15:52.420 — 01:15:53.700 · Speaker 1
Time is too precious.
01:15:54.060 — 01:16:05.860 · Speaker 3
Okay, so it’s not just about doing the right sales pitch. It’s about identifying before you do the pitch even where that person is in the room.
01:16:05.900 — 01:16:06.460 · Speaker 4
Yeah. So.
01:16:06.460 — 01:16:38.800 · Speaker 1
So I’ll share a quick, uh, practical, um, tool that I. So within the first, say, 15 minutes of conversation, after the small chat, ask a few questions, ask them straight up call on a scale, 1 to 10. You said you wanted to use us as podcast. How important an urgent is it for you? Simple question. Rated on a scale 1 to 10.
Based on that answer, I wanna. And a quick tip if anything is seven and below our question it.
01:16:39.000 — 01:16:40.080 · Speaker 3
Okay well.
01:16:40.320 — 01:17:01.200 · Speaker 1
It’s. And let me explain one. So let’s say if you go to a restaurant you order a meal, uh, manager account. Is everything okay before you take the first bite, you normally just say yes. That’s being polite. That’s a seven, so. Oh, so I normally look at anything from eight and up, but even if you say eight, I will say call.
You said eight. Why not lower?
01:17:02.160 — 01:17:02.760 · Speaker 3
Okay.
01:17:03.360 — 01:17:39.390 · Speaker 1
Because by the way, by the way they explain things, they will have to either justify why it’s important or they might say, actually it’s a 5 or 6. That’s why I always recommend us follow up questions. So if something if somebody. There are times that when you ask them this question, they’ll be like, you know, what actually is this 6 or 5, five, six, four, five?
There may be no right now is not the right time, because if it’s not urgent, then you’re going to be following up and following up. You’re going to get ghosted. There’s going to be another meeting with another case study. So forth and so forth and so.
01:17:39.390 — 01:17:44.310 · Speaker 3
Forth, and you end up sending that email. Can we take this project off the books? You know.
01:17:44.350 — 01:18:03.750 · Speaker 1
Exactly. It’s annoying because because it was never important or urgent for them. So just by asking that just at a scale of 1 to 10, how important urgent is it? Just give me a quick scale of you very quickly to tell. And this works because people try that and they’re like, oh, wow, they helped me save so much time just by asking that question.
01:18:03.790 — 01:18:04.870 · Speaker 3
Just by the urgency of.
01:18:04.870 — 01:18:07.190 · Speaker 1
It. Urgency and importance out of ten.
01:18:07.430 — 01:18:09.470 · Speaker 3
Wow. Okay. Very simple question.
01:18:09.510 — 01:18:19.790 · Speaker 1
Very simple question. And sometimes people might go, oh. And then you can say, so from what I’m hearing you say, does this sound like an eight. Or does it sound like a 4 or 5?
01:18:19.830 — 01:18:47.170 · Speaker 3
Okay. And but what if what do you do with, say, clients? Let’s use our bank example. The bank we know the bank will will need our solution or the podcast or whatever we’re trying to sell. But the the gatekeeper isn’t a lover of podcast, doesn’t think it’s it’s it’s urgent. Do you still think it’s worth pursuing, or do you think it’s still a deadly just because of that gatekeeper?
01:18:47.370 — 01:18:50.330 · Speaker 1
When you say gatekeeper, does he control the budget?
01:18:50.890 — 01:18:52.290 · Speaker 3
Uh, let’s assume. Yes.
01:18:52.410 — 01:19:00.570 · Speaker 1
Okay, so if he if he does control the budget, I will find out. What is he, uh, what are his KPIs?
01:19:01.090 — 01:19:01.810 · Speaker 3
Okay.
01:19:01.930 — 01:19:12.810 · Speaker 1
Because if you can phrase it in such a way to feel like this will actually help him get to his bonus or his promotion or his awards, accolades, whatever it is that changes the game.
01:19:12.850 — 01:19:22.490 · Speaker 3
Okay. But as a salesperson, then you’re focused on that person specifically needs. And then also the overall big picture.
01:19:22.490 — 01:19:42.430 · Speaker 1
So yes, absolutely. Especially because you mentioned or something let’s say for the bank. Right. Most of the time there’s a few department that needs to sign off. So the question would always be like, who else need to sign off on this? Is it legal? Is it HR? Is a tick. What are their concerns? Tick might be have certain questions of tick.
01:19:42.590 — 01:19:42.910 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:19:42.950 — 01:20:11.310 · Speaker 1
Legal might have certain because I know I work with banks before. I’ve been in interviews when I’m interviewing a guest and, and the HR person needs to be in the room to make sure they don’t say something. You know what I’m talking about. Exactly. So there’s always different stakeholders. So it’s always good to find out okay.
Who else need to sign off. What will their concerns be? And also at the end of the day ask the question what will this what will make this a no brainer for you?
01:20:11.910 — 01:20:12.590 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:20:13.070 — 01:20:13.990 · Speaker 4
Well yeah.
01:20:13.990 — 01:20:15.230 · Speaker 3
So just straight out ask them.
01:20:15.270 — 01:20:22.670 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Well we’ll make this a no brainer for you and I’ll be very careful. And I’m going to repeat this again. I’ll be very careful if the person says price,
01:20:23.750 — 01:20:26.970 · Speaker 1
because if they choose you for price. They’ll leave you for price.
01:20:27.290 — 01:20:31.850 · Speaker 3
Yeah. And then it’s not a partnership. You can’t grow that relationship. It’s just all about price.
01:20:31.890 — 01:20:34.570 · Speaker 1
Exactly. Just by asking simple questions, huh?
01:20:34.850 — 01:20:35.450 · Speaker 4
Yeah.
01:20:35.930 — 01:20:43.410 · Speaker 3
Okay. So? So. Yeah, it’s. I mean, it’s it sounds so logical. I don’t know, I’m trying to think why we don’t do it more.
01:20:43.570 — 01:20:44.290 · Speaker 4
Um, it’s.
01:20:44.290 — 01:21:46.510 · Speaker 1
It’s because none of us have ever been taught how to sell in school. Unfortunately, school was created during the Industrial Revolution. They were created for. Not for thinkers. Factory workers. For factory workers that don’t need to think are trained you for a job. You don’t give me any hassle. I can slot you in.
Be another, uh, cognitive role, and that’s it. It wasn’t designed to ask question. Why not? Because we said so. In school. There’s only one right or right. Wrong answer. Life is not like that. Yeah. So all of a sudden, you have to think about, like, even the subjects we study, you become a hyper expert. If you study graphic design, you become expert in that.
If you become an engineer, expert in that, so forth and so forth. And that’s when I had the aha moment. Like even when I studied finance or even in marketing, I did my postgraduate marketing, but actually never spoke about how to do advertising, how to, you know, sell. And I remember asking the lecture, why is that?
It’s like, no, that belongs to multimedia. Like okay.
01:21:47.030 — 01:21:50.110 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Which multimedia doesn’t mean anything anymore.
01:21:50.310 — 01:22:01.150 · Speaker 1
No, no. Then again, I’m dating myself. This was like, more than a decade. So look, my my, my my humble observation is because we were never told how to sell. And because of that, we pick up a bad habit.
01:22:01.270 — 01:22:40.850 · Speaker 3
All right, so we get asked as a production company, we get asked all the time to help smaller guys trying to start up and and that’s and we do. And one of the questions we get often is how do I get a sponsor? And to be honest, we quite we struggle to answer that because we’ve built relationships with sponsors and things over time.
And. And that’s kind of the advice we give them. But what would you tell a young creator podcaster looking to get sponsorship for their podcast? Uh, let’s assume their podcast is valuable and it’s it’s decent and they’ve identified a good sponsor.
01:22:41.810 — 01:22:55.290 · Speaker 1
Again, I’ll go back to the question. Like, let’s say if it’s you say, why do you want that specific brand? Is it just for you to look good or because pure money. Like why? Why? Like we understand.
01:22:55.330 — 01:22:57.490 · Speaker 3
And often it’s going to be. Well, we need the money.
01:22:57.650 — 01:23:14.570 · Speaker 1
Aha. Okay. So it’s just about the money. So then any brand will do then. So why why, why that brand. Is it because we’ll make you look cool in front of your friends? Or like. Like, what is it? And if you were the brand sponsor person, why will they choose you?
01:23:15.370 — 01:23:18.970 · Speaker 3
Okay, so figure out what it is. That.
01:23:19.010 — 01:23:20.310 · Speaker 1
What? What are they getting out of it?
01:23:20.350 — 01:23:22.270 · Speaker 3
What are they getting out of it? Not what you’re getting.
01:23:22.270 — 01:23:33.710 · Speaker 1
Because unfortunately, it’s a business. Yeah, and it’s a business. What? What are they getting out and, you know, from from just working with different brands like this. Always a business angle.
01:23:33.830 — 01:23:34.030 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:23:34.590 — 01:23:56.710 · Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. So you need to find out what that angle is. Maybe if you, if they’re looking for young up and coming and they’ve specifically like certain demographic or female and you can see that by the people that feature. Then maybe getting in touch with the person that got sponsored by them, like how did you do it.
If you ask a few people, you will start getting some kind of answers.
01:23:57.750 — 01:24:00.990 · Speaker 3
Okay. Excellent. Yeah. So coming back to your book.
01:24:01.030 — 01:24:01.630 · Speaker 4
Yes.
01:24:01.710 — 01:24:04.110 · Speaker 3
There’s 26 letters in the alphabet.
01:24:04.150 — 01:24:05.710 · Speaker 1
That’s correct. Last time I checked. Yeah.
01:24:06.630 — 01:24:12.990 · Speaker 3
And you’ve put a bit of advice for every single letter of the alphabet. Which is your favorite?
01:24:14.510 — 01:24:15.190 · Speaker 5
You know.
01:24:16.590 — 01:25:05.860 · Speaker 1
If I had to narrow down to three. I think the first one I’ll say is G and G stands for Gitmo, Gitmo. And I’ll explain what that means now. Um, so I remember when, back in 2017, I got my first paying speaking gig and I was over the moon. So I practiced and I practiced and practiced. Long story short, it was a 45 minute talk.
Uh, plus editing, plus putting slides together. I invested 15 hours to the point that I did not enjoy the content anymore. It became, and I you kind of reached to to a certain point, then you realize with every extra half an hour I spent on it is not getting significantly like the gap. So get massaged for good enough to move on.
01:25:05.940 — 01:25:06.980 · Speaker 3
Gets enough to move.
01:25:07.180 — 01:25:07.860 · Speaker 1
Good enough to move.
01:25:07.860 — 01:25:08.060 · Speaker 4
On.
01:25:08.060 — 01:25:08.940 · Speaker 3
Good enough to move on.
01:25:08.980 — 01:25:39.880 · Speaker 1
Yeah. Get my Gitmo. I got that from Craig Rochelle. Good enough to move on because it is another way of saying what does the end look like. Because I’ve noticed that a lot of times, if you don’t know what it looks like, if you’re developing a product or editing a podcast, if you don’t know what good enough looks like, goes on and on and on and on and on to the point that you get so tired of it you probably like you probably have to do certain videos, probably have to say certain script.
You probably get so tired of hearing your own voice. I don’t know if that ever happens to you.
01:25:39.920 — 01:25:41.120 · Speaker 3
Never. I love my voice.
01:25:42.640 — 01:25:58.480 · Speaker 1
But I like it happened to me a few times when I’m doing my YouTube video. Like, you know, if you’re reading reading a script and you’re like, oh gosh, it’s like, how many times I can’t get my number 1GG timoh good enough to move on knowing when that is. Uh, the
01:25:59.640 — 01:26:29.260 · Speaker 1
second one, I will say probably X, because I remember somebody asked me, so what does X stand for? And I tell the story that because growing up, me being Asian, I love playing basketball. And I used to mark my height on the side of the door every year. And it’s kind of like an analogy. Like if you if you I know you have kids, so you I mean you I don’t think you say to your kid like, well, you are seven years old, you should be at this height.
What are you doing to get there? Are you eating enough? You don’t. You don’t do that.
01:26:29.300 — 01:26:29.860 · Speaker 3
No.
01:26:29.900 — 01:27:43.320 · Speaker 1
But in business, unfortunately, with revenue, you know, really goes up. And we, we tend to only look at we should be here, but we but we but we not. Why not? So the ex is more like a reflective in terms of. So what do we do to get there. How did we get there. You know it just shifted the way we think. So X is just a way to mark the growth.
And then the third one is S stories itself because everything’s got a story. So the story framework is I call it give it a spa treatment. Like going from Nice Spa S.p.A. Which stands for Story Point application. So everything that if you if you look at certain people that you enjoy listening to, their most likely struggle for the story, they share the point and show you how this applies to you.
So here’s a quick example. In the book I mentioned the guy with a strange pain. So it goes to the doctor. See, doctor? Like if he were a press, it hurts. Is it? Does it hurt here? Yes. And what about here? Yes. Oh, what about here? Oh, and the doctor says I know what’s wrong. You have a broken, broken index finger.
01:27:45.480 — 01:28:03.640 · Speaker 1
So the point is a lot of time that we might think lots of things are wrong. But in the actual fact, there’s only one thing that points to everything. But in your business, you could think that it’s your pitch, it’s your pricing, it’s your this. But in this case, it could be that you’re trying to target everyone.
01:28:04.000 — 01:28:04.680 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:28:04.880 — 01:28:44.620 · Speaker 1
That comes through the door. And instead of saying no, it’s like dating you. You chose. You went on a few days and sometimes you go for one day. Sometimes you have coffee, sometimes you have lines. Sometimes you end up marrying. And unfortunately, sometimes you end up getting divorced, but you don’t marry everybody.
And business is a relationship because I’ve noticed that. And correct me if I’m wrong. I mean, you and the team that if you work with clients that that that values you, that pays you what you ask for, and you normally get good results for them. Yeah. Every time they phone, you love to work with them. That’s what I’m saying.
So why not do more of that?
01:28:44.700 — 01:28:45.980 · Speaker 3
Why not look for that?
01:28:46.020 — 01:29:17.840 · Speaker 1
Exactly. Because there’s always patterns. And always. Exactly. And always. I always say to like, ask for referrals. People know that, but they don’t ask for referrals. And even asking for referrals is is a technique. So normally people will say something so vague, hey, if you can think of me something on the podcast, please share my name.
That’s too vague. So how I will structure it is be super specific. So here’s a practical example. So especially also referrals when somebody is when you deliver great results.
01:29:19.000 — 01:29:48.920 · Speaker 1
So let’s say this banking client you’re working with and like the views went through the roof or they got so many good quality leads and the, the, the the client phones, you say, oh this is amazing. This will be the perfect time. So let’s say this person’s name is Derrick. Derrick, um, I just want to ask you something like when we started, you were looking for, um, to reach a certain audience.
And now from working together with delivering amazing results. So here is how you ask.
01:29:50.040 — 01:29:57.240 · Speaker 1
Can you think of three people in your circle that will love to experience the same thing?
01:29:59.000 — 01:30:22.700 · Speaker 1
Three people. Not who? Three people. Then they will think, because you narrowed down somebody that went through the same thing as you, somebody love to have the same transformation. Who are the three people that comes to mind? Who are the three people I can speak? I shall speak to you. And if you do this over and over again, you’ll see people start referring.
Yeah, because it’s a hyper specific referral. Instead of saying,
01:30:23.740 — 01:30:25.860 · Speaker 1
uh, if you can think of anybody.
01:30:27.420 — 01:30:31.100 · Speaker 3
Yeah, that that makes so much sense. But we just don’t do those things again.
01:30:31.140 — 01:30:37.020 · Speaker 1
We never thought we were never taught. And this came from a lot of a lot of trial and error.
01:30:37.620 — 01:30:38.140 · Speaker 3
Okay.
01:30:38.180 — 01:30:55.180 · Speaker 1
A lot of trial and error. So whatever I’m sharing on this podcast, I always use myself as a lab rat to try it out, to see if it works. And then once I’ve noticed it does work, then I share it with my clients and then they share it. I mean, then they start doing it, then they start seeing the results. That’s how it happens.
01:30:55.660 — 01:31:06.100 · Speaker 3
Okay, tell me what? Other than not being taught to sell. Do you think there’s certain personality traits that are just better salespeople?
01:31:06.380 — 01:31:44.490 · Speaker 1
You know what? That’s there’s been lots of debate. Like great salespeople. Are they taught or they or they’re born, you know. I think if somebody wants to if somebody don’t see it as a some sometimes people admit to me that they feel like it’s below them, especially. Unfortunately, I see a lot of people that are in professional services because when they go into professional services.
So, for example, a client of mine, he was a a partner at one of the biggest law firm in, in, in in Victoria. They have like a thousand lawyers. He was one of the partners there in law school. They taught people come to us.
01:31:45.690 — 01:31:46.170 · Speaker 3
Wow.
01:31:46.930 — 01:32:21.870 · Speaker 1
That’s how they being taught. So imagine if you a partner there for ten years, that’s how you’ve been taught. But when he started his own business, he realized he doesn’t have all the support now. Now he has to go sell. So he had to he told me he had to humble himself. Like you don’t have that brand behind you.
You don’t have your PA, you don’t have your marketing team. It’s just you. Now you have to go sell. So if you have that humility to understand that if you have a business, business, you need to generate revenue. In order to generate revenue, you need paying clients. What is that called selling?
01:32:22.870 — 01:32:25.030 · Speaker 3
Yeah, there’s no way around it, unfortunately.
01:32:25.070 — 01:32:41.350 · Speaker 1
Otherwise, you might as well call yourself a dork. Well, even if you’re, you still need people to donate money to you. Yeah. So to answer your question, what I have seen is some people do have more aptitude. I, I’ve noticed that it’s the people that are willing to to to put in work.
01:32:42.150 — 01:32:42.830 · Speaker 3
Okay.
01:32:42.870 — 01:33:03.449 · Speaker 1
Like, like for example, before you hop on the call, um, write down what you’re going to say. Something as simple as that. Write down what you’re going to ask. What are you going to say? Practice that. People that do that, they get results because it’s like anything you have to work. I bet you you’re putting more than 10,000 hours Of
01:33:04.810 — 01:33:14.410 · Speaker 1
podcasting. If you compare yourself with like 20 just started, the amount of work you’re putting, it’s probably grown exponentially because you’re putting in the work.
01:33:14.690 — 01:33:17.650 · Speaker 3
It’s true, you know, the more work you put in, the better you get at something.
01:33:17.690 — 01:33:18.970 · Speaker 1
Exactly, exactly.
01:33:19.050 — 01:33:27.810 · Speaker 3
Yeah. And and and so many full podcasters again, just to bring it back, don’t you think a podcast is an excellent place to tell stories?
01:33:28.890 — 01:33:38.170 · Speaker 1
I listen to a podcast every day, so I’m very subjective. However, I have noticed maybe it’s where I’m at in the season I.
01:33:39.250 — 01:33:44.810 · Speaker 1
Or maybe because we live in the so-called busy world. I tend to watch YouTube shows a lot more than
01:33:45.930 — 01:34:25.909 · Speaker 1
listen to, and I know it’s not good for the. But I read all the study, the dopamine hit, and because I know it’s not good for my brain, because if I see my son do this the whole time, I wouldn’t like that. Yeah, sure. You wouldn’t like your kid sitting there just doing this, swiping up the whole day. It’s not good.
Um, so podcasts are listened to sometimes. Um, I listen to it every day, but mostly I’ll be doing stuff, listening, cooking, cleaning, folding the clothes, whatever. That’s how I get my information. When I was driving here today. Yeah, I listened to two of them all the way here. But if it’s something that has that, I have to see an image.
Then I’ll watch the actual video.
01:34:26.070 — 01:34:30.030 · Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah. And do you think it’s a good sales platform?
01:34:30.950 — 01:34:31.669 · Speaker 1
Um,
01:34:32.790 — 01:34:36.590 · Speaker 1
I think it depends on the actual.
01:34:38.510 — 01:35:13.730 · Speaker 1
Depends if, if if you’re offering something interesting to your audience. So let’s say hypothetically, um, let me use a real example that happened yesterday. So I have, uh, I was diagnosed with ADHD and I’ve been on the path of getting myself diagnosed because when I was diagnosed, it was my parents took.
and I have so many unanswered questions and ADHD only came. The phrase only became common in 1981 and I was diagnosed in like 8586. So back then was a relatively new thing. So you can imagine how much research has.
01:35:13.810 — 01:35:14.130 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:35:14.530 — 01:35:51.530 · Speaker 1
And there’s a lot of misconception about it. So I watched an interview of his name is Ed Halliwell. I think that’s his name, the codename the grandfather of of ADHD, because he’s done so much research and he himself is in his 70s and he hasn’t himself. So I watched that interview because I wanted to see his facial expressions when he was telling certain things.
So people thought that interview was like 20 minutes. I watched it because it I needed to know something. But if you are talking about stuff that I don’t really care about, then. So I think the short answer is depends on your audience.
01:35:51.850 — 01:36:03.470 · Speaker 3
Yeah. So but it also depends on if you’re structuring your podcast correctly because you can’t just again, you’ve got to ask questions, give relevant information that people will want to listen to it.
01:36:03.510 — 01:36:14.830 · Speaker 1
Exactly. So so what I’ve picked up is, I mean, even when I was heading to to to to the producer, Miss Darling of ER, she said this is a very natural conversation. It’s not a structure, it’s a flow.
01:36:14.950 — 01:36:15.270 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:36:15.310 — 01:36:23.990 · Speaker 1
Because I have seen podcasts. That is literally a Q&A. Question one. Question two. Why would I want to watch that?
01:36:24.390 — 01:36:26.750 · Speaker 3
Yeah. There’s nothing authentic about that.
01:36:26.790 — 01:36:27.910 · Speaker 1
No, no.
01:36:27.950 — 01:36:42.230 · Speaker 3
It’s it’s oh. And we, we talk about it often. It’s just interviewing technique you know, and often if you’ve got a Q&A, what the host is doing is going from one to the next and not actively listening to what.
01:36:42.470 — 01:36:47.310 · Speaker 1
You do that very well. By the way, I can see that you’re listening with your eyes and your ears. I can see that. So, so well done, well done.
01:36:47.350 — 01:36:50.110 · Speaker 3
Thank you. I’ve had to direct lots of talk shows.
01:36:50.590 — 01:36:51.790 · Speaker 1
Well, there we go. There we go.
01:36:51.790 — 01:37:14.250 · Speaker 3
So, um, but but that’s that’s a skill that gets developed, but it also makes it a lot more interesting because I think the same way. Maybe it’s similar to the selling thing is I’m not actually interested in in what you’re here to sell. I’m interested in who you are. Um, which makes your message more believable in that sense.
01:37:14.290 — 01:37:14.570 · Speaker 1
Okay.
01:37:14.570 — 01:37:38.850 · Speaker 3
Explain that. So when I’m interviewing somebody, often they will have some sort of agenda or something that I want to bring across. Think about politics. Politicians. Okay. But the trick of a good interview is, is actually getting to know the person so that our audience either trusts them or don’t trust them on the interview.
And then when you bring your message across, it’s believed.
01:37:38.890 — 01:37:47.970 · Speaker 1
Can you think of a presenter that does it really well? I can in a specific interview so people can have a mental picture. So you’re not making it to being unicorn?
01:37:48.010 — 01:38:06.960 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Now you’re interviewing, which is great. And then it’s a conversation. Um, so I worked with a guy by the name of De Villiers for many years. Okay. With. With some of his talk shows. And he was very good at talking to a musician about nonmusical things.
01:38:07.000 — 01:38:07.440 · Speaker 1
Huh.
01:38:08.120 — 01:38:19.240 · Speaker 3
And because of that, everybody wants to be on his show because what what it gave people was an insight into the person behind the music, not the music.
01:38:19.280 — 01:38:37.720 · Speaker 1
Tell me something. Do you think he prepped his question ahead of time? Did he like. Because the reason why I say that one of my favorite guys growing up is I enjoy watching Larry King a lot. After school. I watch Larry King, and he said he doesn’t prepare for the show. He likes to be in the moment.
01:38:37.760 — 01:38:38.280 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:38:38.320 — 01:38:39.320 · Speaker 1
What are your thoughts on that?
01:38:39.320 — 01:38:47.600 · Speaker 3
So there was a balance because I produced that, some of that stuff. So there’s a balance of not knowing who you’re talking to is a bad idea,
01:38:49.040 — 01:38:59.300 · Speaker 3
but knowing every single little detail about their lives is not not good. So what we would normally prep a host with is an executive summary of who they’re talking to.
01:39:00.660 — 01:39:15.220 · Speaker 3
What we’ve kind of agreed to talking to them about. You know, some boundaries, especially if it’s a hot topic. Um, and then the best interviews was we would work on the first question. The opener.
01:39:15.420 — 01:39:15.860 · Speaker 1
Huh.
01:39:17.100 — 01:39:30.300 · Speaker 3
Um, so that we could set it in a direction. And thereafter we rely on the host or the interviewer to use their brain, listen actively and find what is interesting to them.
01:39:30.340 — 01:39:33.900 · Speaker 1
That’s fascinating. You said so. The opening question sets the tone.
01:39:33.940 — 01:39:34.420 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:39:34.460 — 01:39:42.140 · Speaker 1
So how will they decide what the opening question is? Is they like a framework? Is it a guideline because I never thought about it like that. Huh.
01:39:42.180 — 01:40:18.360 · Speaker 3
No, I think it’s it’s more like, what do we think is the most punchy question we can ask to get the conversation started? Not necessarily the, the, the the hottest question, but the one that we’re going to start off so the audience can get you to know you fastest. So my opening question to you was, um, who are you?
What do you do? Um, explain to me what sales consultant is, because I want to get that quickly into the audience’s mind so that we can we can get to know you. Um, we can sell you.
01:40:18.920 — 01:40:19.120 · Speaker 1
Um.
01:40:20.120 — 01:40:20.480 · Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:40:20.520 — 01:40:38.760 · Speaker 1
That’s interesting. So, you know, like, call it the elevator pitch or whatever, whatever the people want to call it. That is something that I’ve seen over and over again. People don’t practice. Um, because I’ve seen this happen over and over again. When you ask somebody what they do, they will tell you their function.
01:40:39.200 — 01:40:39.720 · Speaker 3
Yes.
01:40:39.720 — 01:40:49.400 · Speaker 1
And that is a missed opportunity. So they will say, I’m an accountant, I’m a lawyer, I’m a that’s not what you do. That’s your function. That’s not why people hire you.
01:40:49.460 — 01:40:49.900 · Speaker 3
Yes.
01:40:49.940 — 01:41:52.360 · Speaker 1
And I’ve seen that happen over and over again. So I’ve came up with a small little, um, a phrase to help people answer that in its different ways. There’s the 32nd version, one minute version, 16 minute version. So for today’s person purpose, I’ll use a 32nd version. I’ll save mine. Then I’ll explain to you what I did.
So let’s say hypothetically, we are let’s say at the business event, you say to me, what do you do? This is what I’ll say. Call. You know, a lot of people like you are great at what you do, but because you know your subject so well, sometimes you find it very hard to find simple words to explain it to people that are not in the industry.
So what I do is I work with you to find the right words. So when the right clients come along, they get it straight away. And because of that the decisions make a lot faster. Mhm. That’s what I do. So how that works is you know when what I do is that’s the framework. You know, when is the challenge they might have?
What I do is
01:41:53.480 — 01:42:11.880 · Speaker 1
how I help them solve it. You know, when what I do is, you know, when people are looking for different ways of reaching clients and they don’t know how to start a podcast. Well, what I do is I help them simplify the process by doing XYZ. You know, what I do is instead of just saying I produce podcast because then you position yourself as a commodity.
01:42:12.400 — 01:42:15.920 · Speaker 3
Sure. I see. And that could be replaced by anybody.
01:42:15.960 — 01:42:24.160 · Speaker 1
Yes. Because let’s say if they run into three people that produce podcast and they can’t tell the difference, what will they base their buying decision on? Money.
01:42:24.200 — 01:42:24.560 · Speaker 3
Money.
01:42:24.600 — 01:42:26.360 · Speaker 1
And people do that all the time.
01:42:26.400 — 01:42:28.360 · Speaker 3
And they can’t remember which one is which anyway.
01:42:28.400 — 01:42:41.120 · Speaker 1
Exactly. And it’s their own fault because they never thought about it. They think that their sheer expertise will sell it. Uh, now those days are gone. Those days are really, really gone. Because, um, we have too many options.
01:42:41.400 — 01:42:48.980 · Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. So how important is the relationship building after that first sale.
01:42:49.620 — 01:42:53.180 · Speaker 1
That’s just the beginning, because I’m sure you know.
01:42:55.780 — 01:44:14.880 · Speaker 1
To get repeatable. So your current client. Oh, so it will cost you 30% more to get a new client than to retain your current client? And if your current client happy, you can upsell, upsell, have more upsells, cross-sell, whatever you want to call it. So when the circle sells close, I think that’s actually the beginning.
Okay. So so for example, um, one of my clients started working with me about just actually the last what are we, in August? Yeah. This month. For me, it’s just the beginning. Because I know if we if I set the tone in the first month, we’re going to be working for a long, long time because I can see different areas of, uh, of a, um, uh, business that I can help with.
So I mean there’s always certain products. So. My my flagship is the coaching program. Then I have what I call the listening tour. Then I have helping people set the the OKR objective key and key results. You know, the all the all the those are all different things. But I’ll build up the relationship so I can share with the we’ve been working on this.
What I have noticed is this I’ll normally help people with that. Then it becomes a natural flow. So after the first month is actually when the relationship starts, not when an end.
01:44:14.960 — 01:44:23.200 · Speaker 3
Okay. So so it, it it doesn’t start an end actually ever. Um, it starts but it doesn’t end.
01:44:23.240 — 01:45:00.830 · Speaker 1
Sometimes I can only speak for myself. Sometimes my clients after the the five five months of the coaching, they, they feel like they learn enough. And then we part as friends. And that’s also okay because they end up referring other people, some people as a growing. They’re like, Charles, can you help me with that?
Can you help me with this? And then then it expands. However, what I don’t want to do is make it a like a patient and client. A patient doctor patient like dependency, interdependent. Because I don’t think that’s my role. I’m there to help you with certain things, but I don’t want you to depend on me, okay?
I don’t know if that if that.
01:45:00.990 — 01:45:13.350 · Speaker 3
That makes sense for your kind of business. That makes sense. Yeah, but for some other service businesses. Yes. So tech, tech, business services like cleaning, you want your clients to rely on you.
01:45:13.350 — 01:45:14.070 · Speaker 1
Oh yeah.
01:45:15.070 — 01:45:22.830 · Speaker 3
You know, and you want them to get hooked on you and you want that to last forever, you know? Um, but I suppose it depends.
01:45:22.950 — 01:45:26.030 · Speaker 6
Or even, you know, like, so, so let’s say, um.
01:45:26.470 — 01:45:30.270 · Speaker 1
Let’s say your kid is going to play school. That’s not forever. That’s an.
01:45:30.270 — 01:45:30.630 · Speaker 3
Example.
01:45:30.750 — 01:46:20.210 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it will be maybe 2 or 3 years. Yeah, but what you what if I were them or what they want to do is we can recommend somebody else because they’re always in their place. You always need new clients because the kids get old. Same schools? Yeah. So again, depends on the business. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. Like, even with, like, even with a service business like accountants, which you will, you will need sometimes you might outgrow each other because when you first started you might just looking for, um, certain business.
But now that business has grown, you need more advisory trust and this and that. And that accountant is not equipped to do that. You know, so it also changes. I’ve noticed that with my own accountant, um, that, uh, there’s nothing wrong with them. It’s just that I don’t think at this moment because they’re not asking me enough questions.
01:46:21.810 — 01:46:27.130 · Speaker 1
I’m just paying them to do the books, basically, which it’s not. It’s not what I really want.
01:46:27.370 — 01:46:30.090 · Speaker 3
So, Charles, when are you launching a podcast?
01:46:30.210 — 01:46:40.150 · Speaker 1
I actually have my own podcast. I just haven’t, uh, interviewed anybody since August 2025. Oh, so it Well, it’s been a year.
01:46:40.190 — 01:46:41.110 · Speaker 3
Jeez, it’s a year.
01:46:41.150 — 01:46:41.990 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s been a year.
01:46:42.070 — 01:46:42.630 · Speaker 3
It’s long.
01:46:42.670 — 01:46:48.430 · Speaker 1
I’ve interviewed up to 200 people. Then I kind of just stopped. I don’t know why I stopped.
01:46:48.470 — 01:46:51.750 · Speaker 3
I don’t know why you stop now. Is it because maybe you got fatigued?
01:46:53.230 — 01:46:55.070 · Speaker 3
It’s quite a burden to produce.
01:46:55.470 — 01:46:55.909 · Speaker 1
You
01:46:57.590 — 01:47:17.750 · Speaker 1
to a certain point. And I don’t have the amazing team. It was literally a passion project. I literally interview people that I found interesting. Yeah, that was the only reason why I interviewed people. And, uh, um, yeah, I, I don’t actually have a reason. Uh, I mean, was obvious last year was a year ago, so I know I don’t have an answer for that.
01:47:17.790 — 01:47:20.950 · Speaker 3
Yeah. Great. Well, you know who to call when I do.
01:47:20.990 — 01:47:21.310 · Speaker 1
I do.
01:47:21.350 — 01:47:21.670 · Speaker 3
Indeed.
01:47:22.030 — 01:47:24.190 · Speaker 1
I do. Indeed I do indeed I do indeed.
01:47:24.230 — 01:47:35.070 · Speaker 3
All right. Thanks so much for chatting to me today. Um, if you guys have any questions or you want to pick up the book, Google it. And yeah, happy selling.
